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Housing Market Loses Steam, “National Buyer’s Market” Likely in 2026


Dave:
We are only halfway through October and it has already been a wild one for the housing market. We’ve got a government shutdown, we’ve got signs of recession, we’ve got more sellers jumping into the market, but are buyers biting? We’ll cover this and more on today’s episode of On the Market. Hey everyone, welcome to On the Market. I’m
Dave Meyer. I am just getting my voice back after four amazing days in Vegas at BP Con 2025. Hope some of you were there because they’re all great. Every BP Con has been fun, but this one was special. There was just an amazing energy this year. I think if you were there you would know that and I was there of course, but so were the rest of our panelists. Henry did an awesome workshop on deal finding, but he also lost to me in golf just slightly, which was very fun.
Kathy participated in a pitch slam for deals and also single handedly started a 1500 person dance party at the closing party. Jane did a great session on flipping tactics and probably closed five deals while on stage and I gave a keynote about the realities of investing in 2025 and got absolutely wrecked playing craps. It was all excellent. I had the time of my life and I can’t wait for next year, which happens to be in Orlando. We announced it the last day of the conference, so if you didn’t make it this year, definitely check out next year’s conference. I promise you’ll have fun. By the way, before we get into today’s episode, I wanted to mention that we are thinking about doing more sort of small and local events for BiggerPockets in the coming year, so I would love to know in the comments if that’s something that you’re interested in and what format you’d want.
See. Do you want meetups? Do you want presentations, networking workshops? What would you value most if on the market came and visited a town or city near you? Let us know so we can plan more community events and get togethers in 2026. Alright, now let’s talk about all of this stuff that has been going on since BP Con started. There’s a lot going on of course, but today we’re going to focus on a couple things. We’ll look at new housing market data of course, and how really the market is reacting to the slightly lower mortgage rates that we’re seeing. We will also talk about how the government shutdown is actually impacting the housing market maybe more than people realize, and we’ll also talk about how there are signs that the economy in general is softening. Let’s jump in. First up, let’s talk about housing prices because we just got the case Schiller National Index for July and what it showed is that home prices nationally are up 1.7% year over year, so they’re still up, but they are showing continuous signs of softening because just in June, the month before we had them at 1.9%, and this is basically just a continuation of the trend that we’ve seen.
We’ve actually seen month over month home prices fall five consecutive months and just as a reminder, back in January, the year over year number, which is now 1.7% was at 4.2% and February is 3.9%, March 3.4, April 2.7, so it’s basically just been trending downwards closer and closer to flat throughout the year. Now, I personally have been saying this for a while now, but just as a reminder, I’ve been saying that I do think that we’re in a correction because the important thing to remember about the case Schiller index, which is the data we’re talking about today and there’s tons of different price data, they’re all kind of showing the same thing, but the thing that’s unique about the Case Schiller index is that it lags a couple of months. We’re in October, we’re talking about July data, and so if you extrapolate out this trend where we were starting the year at 4.2%, now we’re at 1.7%, we’re probably going to be very close to flat by the end of the year, and that’s not just inferring from the existing data that we already have.
Like I said, there are other data sources that you can look at that are a little bit more current and those also show just continuing signs of the housing market cooling. A new report last week came out from Redfin and showed that new listings of US homes rose 2.3% year over year, so this is just people who choose to put their property on the market. That’s up year over year and it’s not up crazy 2.3%, but it’s the biggest increase we’ve seen in over three months. Actually over the summer we saw fewer and fewer people choosing to list their home on the market. I think that’s probably because rates were still high and we’re entering this correction and sellers were just thinking, you know what? I’m not going to sell into this adverse market. I’m just going to wait it out. But now that we are in the middle of October, I’m recording this on October 10th and just a couple of weeks ago, the fed cut rates rates are about 6.35% as of today, but they did dip a little bit closer to 6.1, 6.2, and so I think what happened is a lot of sellers listed their home in September hoping that those lower rates would bring in additional buyers that weren’t really materializing over the summer, but unfortunately that’s not what’s happening.
In fact, pending sales, the number of contracts basically that have been formulated over the last couple of weeks actually fell to 1.3% from a year ago, so not crazy, but again, it’s the biggest decline in five months. We also saw that days on market, the average time it takes for a property that gets listed to sell is up to 48 days, which is a week longer than it was last year. It’s also longest it’s been since basically before the pandemic since September of 2019. And so when you look at all these things together, if you look at the case Schiller data that I started off with and you move onto this Redfin data, what you see is a market that is trending nationally towards basically a flat neutral market and it could turn into more of a buyer’s market where prices are going down on a national level.
I actually think at this point that is probably pretty likely. I haven’t yet made my predictions for 2026, but if you remember my predictions for 2025 is that we’d be pretty close to flat and it’s looking like that one’s going to be spot on. I know that can be scary for people in the industry like agents, lenders or investors, but I just want to remind everyone that this is okay. This is normal. This is part of a normal housing cycle and actually there are some benefits to this. If you are a buyer right now, it means that there’s more inventory for you to choose from and you are going to have more negotiating power when you’re talking to sellers because they’re going to be competing for a limited pool of buyers. The second thing is that things are going to be on sale. You might be able to actually get properties for cheaper than you have over the last couple of years.
And the third thing that is I think extremely important for the housing market is that affordability is actually getting better in the housing market. I know it’s not a lot better, but if you see that prices are relatively flat, they’ve been, wages are going up, they have been, and mortgage rates have come down even just a little bit, that means that we’re seeing minor improvements to affordability and we have a long way to go, do not get me wrong, but we got to stop somewhere. We got to see the tide turn and it has a little bit, and I know that’s not great for on paper when everyone’s seeing the equity value of their homes, but if you want to get back to a housing market that’s healthy, which I certainly do, I think this is actually something that’s relatively positive. Personally, I’m okay with relatively flat prices if it means that we get more affordability back into the housing market long term because that’s going to get us back to more predictable investing conditions and home buying conditions, which is really what I think we all need. So that’s the update on the housing market that we’ve had over the last couple of weeks. We got to take a quick break, but when we come back, I’m going to talk about how the government shutdown is actually impacting the housing market in ways you might not realize. We’ll be right back.
Welcome back to On the Market, Dave Meyer here talking about recent updates in the market just gave you my housing market data. Now moving on to government shut down. I know that these things happen and sometimes you’re unaffected by it and I think probably for the average American who’s not looking to make a major purchase or doesn’t work in the industry or is of course not a government employee who’s directly impacted by the shutdowns and furloughs, you might not really feel the impact of the shutdown, but there is some data that shows that the housing market is being impacted. First, I’ll just share with you a survey that Redfin just did with Ipsos, and it shows that 17% of Americans are saying that they’re delaying a major purchase like purchasing a home or a car. 7% are saying they’re straight up canceling plans to make a major purchase, and then actually 16% said that they might make a major purchase sooner than expected.
So that’s a little bit conflicting, but I just want to call out that basically 24% of Americans are saying that they’re going to cancel or they are going to delay making major purchases like buying a home, and that sort of makes sense because when you look at how the shutdown is playing out, pay has been suspended for about 2 million federal workers. There are three quarters of 1,000,700 and 50,000 who have been furloughed and the rest are expected to work without compensation. Normally, I think during previous shutdowns we’ve seen that those people will get back pay once the government reopens, but the White House has said that they’re considering not paying furloughed federal employees for the time they didn’t work during the shutdown. So all of these things have really led to a lot of uncertainty for these federal workers, and I’m sure there are other people who aren’t federal workers who are just looking at the chaos in Washington right now and are saying they don’t want to make a major purchase.
Given all this uncertainty, there’s also a ton of other Americans who work for private companies, but they don’t get paid. They don’t go to work because their work relies on government projects. So all these things are combining to impact the housing market very directly. That’s the first thing. There’s a second thing though that I’m not sure everyone has noticed, but when the government shut down on October 1st, the National Flood Insurance Program lapsed meaning that the government sponsored flood insurance is no longer issuing new policies, they are not doing renewals. If you have an existing policy that’s ongoing that is not being canceled, but no new policies, no renewals, and that is pushing people into the private market for flood insurance, which is much, much more expensive. I was just reading an article that showed a woman in Florida who had previously had a quote for $4,000 for annual flood insurance for two bedroom ranch already pretty expensive.
Now, the two quotes she got for private carriers were $9,000 and $12,000. So for one, the cheaper one more than double for the more expensive one, it was triple the government program. Because of this increased cost and uncertainty, NIR is estimating that this is going to prevent or delay 1400 closings a day across the country. Now, on a national level, of course, 1400 closing a day is probably not going to really show up in the data, but what’s interesting and unfortunate about this is that the areas of the country that are in these floodplains, and it’s actually more than you think about 8% of all properties in the US are in areas that require this kind of flood insurance from most lenders, but most of those 8% of properties are in states that are on the Gulf Coast, right? You see Florida, Alabama, Louisiana, Texas, and these are areas of the country that are already getting hit by a housing correction, and so when you combine these things together, right, when you look at the correction that’s already going on, it’s pretty bad in Florida right now in Louisiana, other places are seeing more modest corrections, but it’s definitely going to cool the market further, 1400 sales in Florida right now is actually pretty significant, and the sellers who have had their properties listed for months and are really eager to close and actually sell their homes, these delays and these cancellations are going to be particularly painful.
Hopefully, the government will reach an agreement soon and the National Flood Insurance Program will restart issuing policies and renewals, but in the meantime, it could get a little ugly there, especially if you need to get private insurance even as a stop gap for the time being while the government is shut down. Now, I was reading that in some instances it is possible for current homeowners to assign their flood insurance to a buyer. So if you’re one of these people who are in a situation where the buyer’s backing out or wanting to delay because they can’t get flood insurance, I would recommend looking into this, call your provider and see if you can assign it over because that might be a way that you can actually get through this shutdown and actually close on a property. You could do this if you’re a buyer too. If you are a buyer and you want to actually close on these properties, see if you can get the seller to assign you their insurance program.
Again, it doesn’t work in all instances, not all carriers are going to do that, but it’s worth exploring if you happen to be in this unfortunate circumstance right now. So we’ll have to just see how this plays out, but as of now, these are the two main ways the shutdown is impacting the housing market. We got to take one more quick break, but when we come back, I want to talk about just a couple of data sets I’ve been looking at recently that show more signs of economic weakness even outside of the labor data that we’re getting and what this might mean for the market. We’ll be right back.
Welcome back to On the Market. I am Dave Meyer. Now let’s just talk about a couple signs of economic weakness. Now, I fully admit the economy is totally polarized. There are signs that the economy is strong. We’re seeing the stock market near all time highs. Gold is really high, which you could argue is not a sign of economic strength, but asset prices are high. Bitcoin is near all time high too. Some people think that’s because of its hedge. Some people might say that’s economic strength, but again, there are all sorts of mixed signals in the economy right now, but a couple things came out this week, the week of October 6th that just show a couple things that I think are a little concerning in terms of the overall economy, and I just want to talk about them and how they might impact the housing market and economy in general.
The first up is car loans. Now, I’ve said on the show lots of times, and it’s still true, the average American home buyer remains in good shape. We are not seeing big upticks in foreclosures or delinquencies. They’re very minor for the most part. They’re well below pre pandemic levels. We do see some upticks in VA and FHA loans, but nothing at a concerning level right now. But when you’re looking at the strength of the economy, you often want to look at the quality of the debt that is out there because what often leads to recessions is when people can no longer service their debt, they go bankrupt, they default. That causes these ripple effects throughout the economy, so these are things that you always want to keep an eye on. The car loan data is getting just a little bit worrisome. It is not crazy or anything like now, but what we’re seeing is that the portion of auto loans that are 60 days or more overdue that are subprime hit a record of more than 6%.
That is the highest they have been in any of the data that I’ve seen going back to 2000, and that includes the financial crisis when they peaked a little bit below 5%. Now, it’s important to note that subprime auto loans are not a huge portion of the market right now, but prime loans, which is basically loans made to more qualified buyers are also going up. They’re not at all time highs, but they’re sort of back near pre pandemic levels and they’re on an upward trajectory, so both trending in that direction. We also see that an estimated 1.75 million vehicles were repossessed last year. That’s the highest total since 2009, and it looks like car dealers are actually lowering their credit standards, which is something I always worry about having come into the economy and the housing market during the great financial crisis, I never like seeing lenders lower their credit quality standards, but we’re seeing right now the percentage of new car buyers with credit scores below six 50, which is close to subprime, was nearly 14%.
That’s one in seven people. It’s the highest it’s been in nine years, and so it just shows an overall weakening of the American car owner, and I’m not super concerned about this right now because it’s still a relatively small portion of the market, but these are trends that we should watch out for when we’re evaluating the economy. But there was one stat that I had to share with you all. This is actually insane. New car prices are just, they’re wild right now. The average monthly payment in the United States, the average for all people is more than $750. That is absolutely wild. That is a crazy amount of money. That is $9,000 in post-tax money per year going towards the average car. No wonder people are struggling to make these payments that is so expensive. Maybe I’m just old and my expectations of what car payments should be is like $350, but man, that seems high and nearly 20% of loans and leases, car payments are now above a thousand dollars in monthly payments.
That just rubs me the wrong way. It just makes me a little bit concerned. Again, I’m not trying to be alarmist, but this is something I’m definitely going to keep an eye out, especially among some of the other data that we’re seeing. Student loan delinquencies are up, we’re seeing credit card delinquencies up a little bit, so this is just adding to the picture that we’re seeing across the economy right now. For the most part, American consumers, their feelings about the economy are down from a year ago, but they haven’t really changed over the last couple of months. There is this index of consumer sentiment. I talked about this a lot because it can be an indicator of where the economy is going and what it’s showing right now is that consumer sentiment was basically unchanged month over month. It actually just went down slightly from September, 2025 to October, 2025, but really big decline year over year.
So in October of 2024, the index was at 70. Now it’s at 55. That’s a 22% decrease year over year, which is down a lot. We see the index of consumer expectations of the economy dropping 31% year over year, so obviously Americans compared to a year ago feeling worse about the economy. Now, this study is actually put out by the University of Michigan, and they put out this really interesting chart that I thought was kind of fascinating and wanted to share. It shows that sentiment and expectations for people who have no stock holdings are just plummeting. Meanwhile, people who have large stock holdings are actually starting to feel better and better about the economy, so it just continues to show that in the United States right now we have sort of two different economies going on. People at the very top of the income bracket tend to be doing well.
We’ve seen data that shows that 50% of spending in the economy right now are coming from the top 20% of the market, and their expectations are fine. They’re feeling good about the economy. Meanwhile, other consumers sort of in the lower end of this socioeconomic bracket, they’re not feeling good about the economy, and that could be a sign that they are going to pull back on spending even more in the coming months. So this is another thing that we need to watch out for. Lastly, this is just quick, but I actually saw this interesting data on realtor.com that showed that 22 states, so nearly half of all states are either in a recession or in a higher risk of a recession. These are states, they’re honestly just spread out throughout the country. You see some in the northeast, like in New England, you see some in the middle of the country, Wyoming, Montana, South Dakota, Illinois, a couple in the south in Mississippi and Georgia up in the Pacific Northwest in Washington and Oregon.
They’re pretty spread throughout the country except the southwest of the country. That seems to still be a bright spot. Not all of them are growing. We see California, Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico. They’re sort of treading water. Same thing with some other states like Missouri, Tennessee, Ohio, New York, and then there are a lot of states that are continuing to grow. Texas, Florida, the Carolinas, Pennsylvania, North Dakota, Idaho, Utah, Arizona. All still continuing to grow, but it does again show that a lot of the country, when you see all this confusing economic data, it’s because it’s all really segmented. It depends on what state you’re living in. It depends on where on the income bracket you’re in. It depends on how much stock and gold and Bitcoin you own, so if you are feeling really disconnected from the headlines that you’re seeing, it makes sense because the headlines are broad generalizations and it’s really hard to make broad generalizations about the economy right now.
It is totally different depending on who you are, where you live, what your job is, what kind of things you invest in, and so just remember that you got to go a level deeper in the data. But I’m bringing this all up because some of this recession risk could be reflected in mortgage rates going forward. Again, as you may know, when there is risk of recession, that generally pushes down mortgage rates, which could bring back some more affordability to the housing market, but if that happens, and how much that happens will largely depend on inflation data, because if inflation data goes up, it will probably counteract this recession risk. Mortgage rates will stay the same, but if inflation starts to level out and we see more of this recession risk, obviously no one wants a recession, but the one silver lining of that might be slightly lower mortgage rates in the weeks or months to come.
That’s why I wanted to bring this up, and it’s something we’ll keep an eye out for here on the market. That’s my update for today, October 14th. Thank you all so much for listening to this episode of On The Market. Don’t forget, if you want to see more on the market events in your local area, make sure to leave us a comment either on YouTube or Spotify. We would love to hear what you would like to see out of on the market events. We’d love to see you in your local market. I think it’d be a lot of fun, but we just want to figure out what exactly that should look like. Thanks again for listening. I’m Dave Meyer. See you next time.

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102 Ways To Make Some Extra Cash


Image source: Shutterstock. Man making extra money working on his laptop.

Imagine this: It’s 2 a.m., and you’re staring at the ceiling, the glow of your phone casting shadows on the walls. The fridge hums like a distant accusation, reminding you of the groceries you skipped this week. Bills lurk like ghosts on the kitchen table—rent creeping up, car repairs whispering threats, that dream vacation buried under a mountain of “what ifs.” You’ve hustled for years, poured your soul into a job that pays the minimum for your maximum effort, only to feel the slow erosion of hope.

But there are tangible ways to turn this situation around.  Here is a list of 102 ways to make extra money.  No jargon, no fluff—just solid ideas that actually generate money, from flipping forgotten treasures to sharing your wisdom with the world.  Each one should help you get some extra income – and help you thrive.  Scroll down.

102 Ways To Make Extra Money

1. Get free money by signing up for Robinhood.  They’ll give you some free stock that you can easily sell and cash out.  Sign up is easy => go here.

2. Take online surveys or join rewards programs. Note: the best survey app these days is 1Q. It pays 25 cents per question which is ten times better than any other app.  Ignore the other ones and get 1Q.

3. If you have to buy something get cash back when you’re doing it.  There are plenty of cash back apps out there, Upside is probably the best one – it lets you save a percentage back when you buy gas or eat out.

4. Sell your internet browsing history.  A lot of people are uncomfortable with this, and selling your internet browsing history is a reliable way to make money.  Nielsen surveys will pay you, so will Savvy Connect.  You can sign up here, and here.

5. Sell your spare internet.  Most people have wireless internet networks at home, but don’t use all their bandwidth.  And you can sell the spare bandwidth you’re not using.  The best option in this space is EarnApp.  You can sign up => here.

6. Clean out the house and cars and put all the money you find aside. It might surprise you how much small change is lying in the back of drawers, in ashtrays, and between seat cushions.

7. Start a kids gumball machine business.  They can give you up to $1,000 per year in passive income, but you need to have the right mix of inventory in the machines (click here and here for more).

8. Have a yard sale or open a booth at the flea market.

9. Sell your junk on eBay, Craigslist, Amazon or any of the other good used marketplace websites.  Lots of people do well with this.

10. Make crafts and sell them on Etsy or at local craft shows.

11. Clip coupons out of the paper and sell them on eBay (yes, people do this).

12. Collect aluminum and other metals and sell them to a metal recycler. A metal detector makes this easier if you have one. You can also collect cans from your employer if they don’t already have a recycler.

13. If you must spend money, use a rewards credit card that pays cash back and cash out as soon as you’re eligible to do so.

14. Return items you bought but haven’t used for a refund.

15. If you are a mechanic, become a remote virtual consultant.  Basically, leverage car know-how on sites like JustAnswer to diagnose issues via photos/videos, suggesting fixes without touching a wrench. Expand to other trades like plumbing.

16. Rake leaves/shovel snow/cut grass/clean gutters for others.

17. Rent out a room in your house.

18. Start a blog and put ads on it using Google’s AdSense. You can also add affiliate links to your website or blog and get paid when people buy products through your links.

19. Become a freelance writer.

20. Become a temporary worker.

21. Become a medical guinea pig or sign up for clinical trials of drugs.  This actually works pretty well.

22. Donate plasma.

23. Sell your hair to a wig maker.

24. Sell your eggs to a fertility specialist.

25. Donate sperm at a sperm bank. Also, sell  your blood to a plasma center.

26. Start vegetable plants and sell the starter plants for a fraction of what nurseries charge.

27. Drop services you don’t need like cell service, cable, lawn/pool service, or Internet and free upwards of $100/month.

28. Conserve energy and water aggressively and lower those bills to free up extra cash.

29. Return cans and bottles for the deposit if it’s available where you live.

30. Teach something that you are good at to others, either through a community school or private lessons.

31. Sew/make alterations for others.

32. Help the elderly. Offer to do the shopping and take them to appointments, for a small fee.

33. Start selling your photos to stock websites.  Landscapes and some other vector images can do well.  There is a good reddit thread on this subject, here.

34. Collect ink cartridges from friends and coworkers (and your office if they don’t recycle) and give them to places like Office Depot or Staples for cash back.

35. Wash/detail cars.

36.  Petsit/Wash/detail pets.

37. Sell your stuff to a consignment shop. Here are some tips.

38. Sell food to workers at a construction site.

39. Sell your wedding china to Replacements Ltd.

40. Cash out any “points” you have lying around. Whether it’s from credit/debit card reward programs, store/product loyalty programs, gas rewards, or rewards sites, cash in everything you can and use the cash or gift cards to cover household expenses.

41. Flip niche Instagram accounts  The idea here is you grow themed accounts (e.g., “vintage typewriter memes”) to 10,00 followers using free tools, then sell them on marketplaces like SwapSocial.  Warning, this could be against Instagram’s terms of service.

42. Use equipment you already own to make money (power washing, snow blowing, etc.)

43. Start doing robocall takedown settlements: Get together with a lawyer, answer spam calls, waste scammers’ time until a real agent appears, then cite Do Not Call laws to demand $500–$2,600 settlements—document everything for legal leverage.

44. Act as a driver for the schools. Some public and private schools take on private drivers to go where buses can’t or won’t go.

45. Turn a hobby into profit (photography, cake decorating, scrapbooking, etc.)

46. Use your skills to enter and win contests that pay cash (bake-offs, craft contests, state fairs, etc.)

47. Change people’s oil for them.

48. Use your van or truck to haul heavy things for people.

49. Take any overtime your regular job offers.

50. Take a part-time job. Good part time jobs are include becoming a realtor or driving for Uber/Lyft.

Woman driving her car for uber
Image Source: Shutterstock. Woman driving her car, making extra money.

51. Clean houses.

52. If you have a lot of land, open some up for RV or boat storage at cheap rates.

53. Quit smoking/drinking.

54. Go through drive-through lanes and parking lots after hours and pick up the spare change you find.

55. Use programs like CVS Extra Care and coupons to get toiletry and cleaning items for free. Sell them at your next yard sale.

56. Use coupons and add what you save to your cash stash.

57. Refinance your mortgage. If you can swing the closing costs and you can save a point or two on your interest rate, it may be worthwhile to lower that monthly payment (particularly if you’re carrying PMI and can get out of it by refinancing). Just don’t cash out the equity.

58. Collect old cell phones from friends. family and co-workers and trade them in or resell them.

59. Become a human or car billboard. Places will pay you to decorate your car with their logos or wear their logos to popular events.

60. Become a mystery shopper.

61. If there’s a big event coming to your area like a major sports tournament or convention, rent out your house.

62. Get paid to be a friend. The paid companionship app “Rent-a-Friend” will match you with people who need platonic company for events, coffee chats, or the like.

63. If you have more than one vehicle, sell one.

64. Unload any tickets you’re holding. If you’ve got season sporting tickets or tickets to the upcoming concert, sell them (just don’t scalp them for more than face value).

65. Test drive for cash. Some car dealers will give you cash or gift cards to come in and test drive a vehicle with no obligation.

66. Drop unnecessary insurance coverage.

67. Drop any “double” services you find. For example, do you have AAA and an insurance policy that provides roadside assistance? Either don’t renew AAA or drop the roadside from your insurance coverage and save the money.

68. Check your state’s unclaimed property office to see if you are owed any money.

69. Cash in any savings bonds you have lying around. You’d be surprised how many people have them gathering dust in a drawer or safe deposit box.

70. Try to negotiate a lower interest rate on any credit card debt you have to lower the monthly payment.

71. Don’t renew magazines, gym memberships, club memberships or any other subscription/membership when it comes up. Let it go and pocket the cash.

72. Use your own ATM. Don’t pay transaction fees at another bank’s machine.

73. Sell any gift cards that you can’t/won’t use on eBay or swap them for ones you will use.

74. Write a book and sell it through LuLu or as a digital download.

75. Make music, art, computer themes, canned websites or clipart and sell them online.

76. Look into bundling the services you need to keep. It might lower the monthly bill.

77. Call all your service providers and ask if you can get a discount because you’re a good customer, always paid on time, or if you’re a member of a certain union or organization. Negotiate a discount if you can.

78. If you are a writer start a typewriter poetry on demand gig. Haul a vintage typewriter to parks or events, crafting personalized poems for passersby on a pay-what-you-want basis (boost with AI for rhymes). It’s poetic networking.

79. Actually complete and send in those rebate forms you’ve been meaning to do.

80. Sell your double stuff. Have you digitized your music or video collection to the point where the discs never see the light of day anymore? Sell them.  Some collectors love the old physical media.

81. Scrounge the local trash piles for good, intact items and sell them on Craigslist or eBay.

82. You can question the ethics of this one, but people do it all the time: Buy (or acquire for free) items from sites like Freecycle or Craigslist, or at the local thrift shop, and then resell them for a profit.

83. Be a plant/garden sitter. You water and tend to the plants while the owners are away.

84. Rent out your car on Turo.  This actually works.

85. Do video reviews of products and put them on YouTube.  YouTube is a tremendously valuable advertising platform, so they’ll pay you to make content.

86. Open a bank account that will pay you a cash bonus for opening the account.

87. Become a focus group participant. Look on Craigslist or in the want ads for postings in your area. Or just run a google search and email the companies you find in google.

88. Enter contests that give out physical prizes and sell any prizes you win.

89. Send in your FSA or HSA claims. Don’t wait until the end of the year, go ahead and get your money back.

90. Check your health insurance plan for any rebates you’re entitled to. Some reimburse wellness materials like gym memberships or weight loss programs. If you’re paying out of pocket, check and see if you can get the money back.

91. Use a site like Rakuten or another rewards program to get cash back on online shopping. Pocket the difference.

92. Ask for a raise at your regular job. It might happen and it never hurts to ask. Even in this economy, you might get it if you’re a valuable employee.

93. If you have a vacant office, room, or garage in your home, rent it out as studio space to artists or musicians whose only alternative is to pay for expensive time in a “real” studio.

94. If you are popular on a message board, ask about a moderator gig. Some are paid a tiny bit each month.

95. Get free samples from sites like WalMart.com or many others. It’s not outright cash, but every sample you get and can use or sell reduces the amount of money you have to spend on products.  A good site for this option is: thefreebieguy.com.

96. Sell any toys your kids have grown out of on Facebook Marketplace or OfferUp.

97. Get back anything you’re entitled to. If you replace your car battery yourself, be sure to take the old one back and get the core charge refunded. Get price adjustments on items that go on sale within the store’s specified time frame. Get your security and utility deposits back when you move. Don’t leave any money on the table.

98. Switch your cash savings from a non-interest bearing account to an account that pays interest.

99. Rent out parking spaces. If you live in an area with little parking or near a big event center/arena and you have a little extra space, rent it out for parking.

100. Sign up with Mechanical Turk (Mturk.com) from Amazon.com and take on tasks that interest you.

101. If you have old electronics that won’t sell, try trading them in. There are several stores/websites that offer trade-ins or take backs for cash or gift cards.

102. Stop spending on stuff you don’t need. Seriously. This is the best way to free up cash.

1000 ways to make 1000Finally, if you are serious about finding ways to make extra cash get and read a copy of One Thousand Ways to Make $1,000. This book is reputed by Warren Buffett’s biographers to be one of the major influences on the legendary investor’s business acumen. After pulling a copy of One Thousand Ways off a shelf at age eleven and devouring F.C. Minaker’s practical advice, Buffett declared that he would be a millionaire by the time he was in his 30s. Written in a plain and conversational style this book is full of inventive ideas on how to make money through hard work, excellent salesmanship, and resourcefulness. Get it from Amazon.com here.

Note that none of these tips require incurring additional debt or cashing out any savings like home equity or raiding a retirement plan. Those are courses of last resort. Try generating extra cash first. If you really want to make some extra money, try turning something you like into a home-based business. There are a lot of ways to generate extra cash if you’re willing to put forth the effort. Use your imagination and draw on your expertise and you can find several ways to bring in some extra money.

Do you have any ideas for making extra cash? Share with us in the comments below!

Material Connection Disclosure: Some of the links in this article are “affiliate links.” If you click on the link and make a purchase or sign-up, Saving Advice will receive an affiliate commission – which will help keep the site going. We only recommend products we think will add value to savingadvice.com readers. We are disclosing this in compliance with Federal Trade Commission’s 16 CFR, Part 255: “Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising.”

Editors Note: For this story, SavingAdvice used generative AI to help with some sections of the article. An editor verified the accuracy of the information before publishing. 

Jennifer Derrick
Jennifer Derrick

Jennifer Derrick is a freelance writer, novelist and children’s book author.  When she’s not writing Jennifer enjoys running marathons, playing tennis, boardgames and reading pretty much everything she can get her hands on.  You can learn more about Jennifer at: https://jenniferderrick.com/.

jenniferderrick.com/



You Can Now Book Loyalty Eligible Hotels Directly on Rove’s Platform, Plus Earn 10X Rove Miles in Addition to Hotel Points


Book Loyalty Eligible Hotels Directly on Rove’s Platform

Rove, the free rewards platform redefining how travelers earn and use miles, has announced a new feature.

Beginning October 14, 2025, Rove users can book Loyalty Eligible hotels directly on Rove’s platform—and still earn hotel points, elite night credits, and status benefits in addition to Rove Miles. These Loyalty Eligible stays are available across all major hotel chains at tens of thousands of properties around the world.

Loyalty Eligible bookings dont replace Rove’s existing option to earn up to 25x Rove Miles per $1 spent on hotels (and even more in some cases). 

Earn Double Miles

To celebrate the launch, Rove is offering double Rove Miles on all Loyalty Eligible hotel bookings through October 31, 2025. That means a total of 10x Rove Miles per $1 spent—in addition to any hotel points and credit card rewards earned.

If you don’t have a Rove account yet, you can also earn 500 miles just for signing up.

Booking Loyalty Eligible Stays

Finding Loyalty Eligible stays is simple: When available, Loyalty Eligible rates will appear in search results right next to standard rates. Once booked, these reservations sync seamlessly with each user’s hotel loyalty account.

About Rove

Rove is the first travel rewards program to provide a flexible way for users to earn and redeem miles without the need for a travel credit card. Users can accumulate Rove Miles by booking flights and hotels through the platform, as well as by shopping with over 13,000 partner merchants via shopping portal or browser extension.

These miles can then be used to book flights with over 140 airlines and stays at hundreds of thousands of hotels, or transferred to select partner loyalty programs, offering a more versatile and accessible alternative to traditional, carrier-specific airline miles.

UWM Customers Will Soon Earn Bilt Points for On-Time Mortgage Payments


Well, it appears the rumors were true. You’ll soon be able to earn Bilt points when you make your monthly mortgage payment.

Today, UWM and Bilt announced preliminary details regarding their partnership, which comes on the heels of a $100 investment in the housing loyalty program back in July.

While we only know a little bit so far, we do know that UWM customers will earn Bilt points when making on-time mortgage payments.

This extends the Bilt platform into mortgage, as it currently only rewards renters for making on-time rental payments each month.

UWM customers will also gain access to exclusive neighborhood benefits and special offers from more than 40,000 local merchants nationwide.

Earn Bilt Points for Simply Paying the Mortgage Each Month

As noted, we don’t know all the program specifics just yet, which the pair said will begin a “phased rollout” in early 2026.

But we do know that if you’re a United Wholesale Mortgage customer you’ll soon be able to earn Bilt points when paying the mortgage.

This seems to work similarly to their current Bilt points for rent, where you earn one point for each dollar of rent.

For example, someone who pays $2,500 per month in rent earns 2,500 Bilt points each month. However, that program requires you to open the Bilt Mastercard.

And you have to make a minimum of five transactions each statement period to earn the points on your rent. It’s also capped at 100,000 points max annually.

It’s unclear how the new Bilt/UWM partnership will work and if you’ll need to open a Bilt credit card.

But it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s a requirement beyond simply being a UWM mortgage customer.

In addition, you’ll probably need to spend X amount per month, or make X transactions per month to earn the points for mortgage payments.

The difference though is that rent is actually paid via the Bilt Mastercard, whereas you can’t make mortgage payments with a credit card.

Instead, there will probably be an arrangement where your monthly mortgage amount earns points, but is paid via your typical method such as a checking account.

This is how rival Mesa is doing it. They award you the points for the mortgage payment each month, but you pay it as normal, not with their Mesa Homeowners credit card.

You simply tell them your monthly mortgage amount, then as long as you spend at least $1,000 in non-mortgage spend each month, you earn one point per dollar.

So if the mortgage amount you enter (and verify) is say $3,000, you earn 3,000 Mesa points each month as long as you spend $1,000 on Mesa’s associated credit card.

I would imagine Bilt will set this all up in similar fashion to ensure they’re actually making money on the deal.

UWM Customers May Earn Bilt Points for Obtaining a Mortgage Too

The joint press release also said you’ll be able to “earn Bilt Points during origination.”

While it’s not totally clear what that means, it could be similar to Mesa Mortgage rewarding its customers with one point for every dollar of their loan amount.

So if you’re a Bilt member and you work with a UWM-approved mortgage broker to get your mortgage, perhaps you’ll also earn one point per dollar on the loan amount.

Just note that this partnership a little unique because UWM is a wholesale mortgage lender, meaning they don’t work directly with the public.

Instead, you must work with an independent mortgage broker who happens to be approved with UWM and who chooses to send your loan to UWM instead of another wholesale lender partner.

Assuming they do, you might be able to earn additional Bilt rewards points.

Aside from the point earning, every home loan originated via UWM will be embedded with Bilt benefits.

This includes access to exclusive neighborhood benefits and special offers from 40,000+ local merchants nationwide.

On the other end of things, Bilt’s home buying platform will enable its members “to instantly discover homes based on all-in pricing.”

So my guess is there will be a sort of lead funnel that sends Bilt’s rent users to UWM if and when they decide to make the jump to homeownership.

Somewhat similar to how Redfin users are now sent to Rocket Mortgage for a home loan.

Colin Robertson
Latest posts by Colin Robertson (see all)

Saumil Mehta joins Ticketmaster as Global President to lead ‘AI transformation’ at the Live Nation-owned company


Live Nation-owned ticketing giant Ticketmaster has appointed Saumil Mehta as its new Global President, effective November 1.

Mehta succeeds Mark Yovich, who has served as President since 2020 and will now become Chairman of Ticketmaster with a focus on the company’s long-term strategy and global growth.

Mehta will report directly to Live Nation CEO Michael Rapino.

According to Ticketmaster, over the past six months, Mehta has worked as an advisor and investor to a diverse group of AI startups and also aims to “accelerate an AI transformation” at the company.

Michael Rapino Live Nation
Credit: Live Nation/press

“Over the past several years, Ticketmaster has been working to build a strong foundation for the next phase of growth. Saumil brings a fresh perspective and deep product and technology expertise that will help us build on that momentum.”

Michael Rapino, Live Nation Entertainment

Under his leadership, Ticketmaster plans to “execute AI opportunities across key areas of its business – such as empowering venues, fortifying the ticketing infrastructure against bad actors, and enhancing the ticket-buying experience for fans”.

Ticketmaster said today (October 14), that as the company “enters its next chapter, Mark Yovich’s leadership has helped lay the groundwork for continued success”.

Added Ticketmaster: “During his tenure as President, Ticketmaster has delivered significant growth, expanding the company’s global presence, advancing its technology platforms, and bringing a unified experience to fans around the world. As Chairman, Yovich will continue to support Ticketmaster’s long-term strategy, with a focus on global expansion and innovation.”

Mehta steps into the role with a strong foundation in product innovation, scaling technology businesses and global commerce.

He spent over nine years at Square, where he was most recently Chief Product Officer and Head of Business Org, “helping build and scale products used by millions of small businesses and hundreds of millions of consumers”.

Prior to this role, Mehta founded LocBox, a marketing automation startup that helped local businesses grow through targeted, multi-channel marketing, which was acquired by Square in 2015.

“The real opportunity lies in how we evolve the experience by building smarter and more intuitive ways for fans to connect with the live experiences that matter so much to them.”

Saumil Mehta

“Ticketmaster is an incredible business that serves as the world’s portal to the best live entertainment,” said Mehta.

“The real opportunity lies in how we evolve the experience by building smarter and more intuitive ways for fans to connect with the live experiences that matter so much to them.”

Michael Rapino, CEO of Live Nation Entertainment, added: “Over the past several years, Ticketmaster has been working to build a strong foundation for the next phase of growth.

“Saumil brings a fresh perspective and deep product and technology expertise that will help us build on that momentum.”

 Music Business Worldwide

Best Buy’s CEO says growing spending power gap between affluent and poor ‘keeps me up at night’



Unlike luxury consumer goods brands such as Cartier or Louis Vuitton, Best Buy needs to appeal to a very wide swath of society. Consumer spending patterns since the pandemic, especially the growing gap in spending power in the U.S. between the most affluent and the least, have the CEO of an electronics mass retailer worried.

“We’re seeing some dispersion between the high income earners and the low income earners,” Corie Barry told the Fortune Most Powerful Women summit on Tuesday in Washington, D.C. “If I just level up, that is probably what keeps me up at night.”

Barry, CEO since 2019, stated that approximately 60% of the gross domestic product depends on the spending of the most affluent segment of U.S. society, double the percentage it was before the COVID pandemic. “It makes it feel like there’s really resiliency in the overall market, that’s an issue, because your lower-income consumers are really struggling,” she continued. Those struggles include credit delinquencies and difficulty navigating inflation and high housing costs.

“Anytime the entire economy is heavily reliant on a small, narrow population of people. That is not good for the long-term health of the economy,” said Barry, whose company took in revenue of $43.5 billion last year.

The solution for Best Buy has been to offer a wider assortment of more affordable items, allowing consumers to continue shopping there. “How can we make sure we have something that will cater to you so that the answer isn’t, no, I can’t afford anything?” said Barry.

Impact of tariffs

Of course, procuring that broader assortment has been made much more difficult by the tariffs imposed on many countries by the Trump administration since April. With less than 10% of the world’s electronics being manufactured in the United States, Best Buy is particularly vulnerable among retailers to the ongoing tariff wars. Barry said that at the start of the year, about 55% of the goods Best Buy sells came from China, and that now that percentage is about 35%, with Mexico and the U.S. picking up a greater share.

One thing Barry says she learned from the COVID crisis was to be upfront with employees, who now number 85,000, about the impact of such significant events beyond their control. Notably, executives must ensure that there is not a constant state of alarm, all while remaining vigilant and responsive to the required changes in how to operate the business.

“They can’t be worried every day about the ups and downs of geopolitical policy,” Barry said. At the same time, executives should be transparent with the troops. “Our people deserve to understand why we’re making the decisions we are, and we are incredibly transparent.”

Is Investing Just Gambling?



Is investing just gambling? Are you better off going to the bookies rather than risking your money in the stock market?

My free investing in index funds course 📨

You can get a special offer from Xero in the link below:

My service for flat fee help from a financial adviser

The brokers I use: 📈
Trading 212
Affiliate link. To get free fractional shares worth up to £100, you can open an account with Trading 212 through this link Terms apply.
If you do not get your free share after depositing £1. Use promo code DAMIEN, you will find it in the section with the three lines in the bottom right corner of the app.

Vanguard

This is not an affiliate link

InvestEngine

This is not an affiliate link

DISCLAIMER: Some of these links may be affiliate links. If you purchase a product or service using one of these links, I will receive a small commission from the seller. There will be no additional charge for you. Free shares can be fractional.

When investing, your capital is at risk and you may get back less than invested. Past performance doesn’t guarantee future results. Other fees may apply. See terms and fees.

This video does not represent financial advice, and I am not a financial advisor. When investing, your capital is at risk. Investments can rise and fall and you may get back less than you invested. Past performance is no guarantee of future results.

🎵 Music licensed from Lickd. The biggest mainstream and stock music platform for content creators.
Mandy by Ozzie Nelson and His Orchestra, License ID: 9vYwBGbB1yz
If you want to use music from famous artists, try Lickd to get track credits and unlimited stock music:

🎵 Music licensed from Lickd. The biggest mainstream and stock music platform for content creators.
Blinding Lights by The Weeknd, License ID: xjEB07jq1ka
If you want to use music from famous artists, try Lickd to get track credits and unlimited stock music:

Timestamps
00:00 – Investing is Gambling
00:40 – Investing vs Gambling
01:20 – Stake
02:11 – Asset
03:54 – Time
06:44 – Sponsor
07:52 – More Time
08:58 – Economic Utility
11:48 – Adverts

source

PSLF For Medical Group Workers


Can You Get Public Service Loan Forgiveness If You Work in a Medical Group?

This question is about Public Service Loan Forgiveness.

The Public Service Loan Forgiveness program offers student loan forgiveness for borrowers who make 120 qualifying payments under an income-driven repayment plan while working full-time for a qualifying employer. That typically means direct employment by a government or 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.

3 Steps To PSLF Forgiveness | Source: The College Investor

For health care professionals (doctors, nurses, physician assistants, and other medical staff) this means that PSLF eligibility hinges on who employs you and where you work.

Employees of nonprofit hospitals, community health centers, and public clinics typically qualify. But for medical professionals working in private medical groups, the situation is more complicated. If your group contracts with a hospital rather than being directly owned by it, PSLF eligibility has not always been clear.

It’s also important to note that any employee who works for a medical group – including billing, administration, and others – still qualify in the same way that doctors and nurses do. It simply matters who employs you!

Would you like to save this?

We’ll email this article to you, so you can come back to it later!

When Medical Group Employees Qualify

To qualify for PSLF, your employer must fall under one of these categories:

  1. A U.S. government organization (federal, state, local, or tribal, including the U.S. military)
  2. A nonprofit organization tax-exempt under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code
  3. Certain other nonprofits that provide qualifying public services (such as public health, emergency management, or public education)

If you are a nurse, technician, or administrative worker employed directly by a nonprofit hospital or health system, you are generally eligible. But if you work for a for-profit medical group that contracts with a nonprofit hospital in states where direct employment is prohibited (notably California and Texas), your eligibility depends on whether the hospital or clinic is considered your “qualifying employer.”

Largest Medical Groups In The United States

Remember, you simply have to be employed by a medical group (not just be a doctor or nurse). Here are the largest non-profit medical groups in the United States:

  • Kaiser Permanente
  • CommonSpirit Health
  • Ascension
  • Advocate Health
  • Providence
  • Trinity Health

It’s also worth noting that the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is also a qualifying medical group for PSLF.

Special Rules For California And Texas Physicians

California and Texas have long prohibited most nonprofit hospitals, foundations, and clinics from directly employing physicians. Instead, doctors typically form medical groups or professional corporations that contract to provide medical care in nonprofit facilities.

Under previous PSLF regulations, that structure made many physicians ineligible, since they weren’t technically “employees” of a qualifying employer — even if they worked full-time in nonprofit hospitals serving the public.

Recognizing this problem, the Department of Education issued new PSLF guidance (PDF File) that allows certain physicians in California and Texas to qualify under expanded definitions of “employee” and “qualifying employer.”

Qualifying Employer

For PSLF purposes, nonprofit hospitals, 1206(l) foundations, and other nonprofit facilities barred by state law from directly employing physicians are now considered qualifying employers of physicians who provide services there, even though the physician’s paycheck comes from their own medical group or corporation.

In other words, the nonprofit facility (not your medical group) should be listed as your qualifying employer on PSLF forms.

However, there are limits:

  • Physicians contracted at public hospitals exempt from these bans (like University of California or county hospitals) must be directly employed by those hospitals to qualify.
  • Simply holding an admitting relationship or serving as an independent contractor does not automatically count.

Employee Definition

Physicians in California and Texas can now meet the PSLF “employee” requirement in one of two ways:

  1. Their medical group or professional corporation has a written contract with a qualifying nonprofit facility to provide care (for example, an exclusive agreement to staff a clinic or hospital department).
  2. The physician individually holds hospital privileges or another form of legal authorization to provide care within the nonprofit organization.

Both pathways recognize that in these states, “employment” may take nontraditional forms due to legal restrictions.

Full Time Employment And Proof Of Work

Like all PSLF participants, medical group workers (including those covered by the California and Texas exceptions) must meet the full-time service requirement:

  • Work an average of at least 30 hours per week across one or more qualifying employers.
  • Make 120 qualifying monthly payments on Direct Loans while meeting that employment standard.

Borrowers can combine part-time service at multiple eligible organizations as long as their total hours meet the threshold.

What This Means For Medical Group Employees

If you work within a non-profit medical group, you likely qualify for public service loan forgiveness. 

If you are directly employed by a 501(c)(3) or government entity, you’re already eligible. If you work for a private medical group contracted with a nonprofit hospital, your eligibility will depend on whether your employer or work site is recognized as a qualifying organization in the Department of Education’s PSLF database.

It’s worth checking whether your hospital, foundation, or clinic appears in that database and keeping copies of your employment certification forms (ECFs) to confirm your status over time.

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The post PSLF For Medical Group Workers appeared first on The College Investor.

SoFi Checking & Savings $300 + $415 Signup Bonus (Nationwide; Requires $5,000 Direct Deposit)


Update 10/13/25: Swagbucks back up to $415 for some. 

Update 9/8/25: Rakuten back at $375/37,500

Inboxdollars is $415 for some

Update 9/1/25: $375/37,500 from Rakuten + $300 from SoFi. Not as good as the recent $400 deal but close. (Try stacking with this deal for an additional $75 with SoFi Plus.)

Update 7/30/25: $400/40,000 from Rakuten + $300 from SoFi. Highest ever. Today only. (Try stacking with this deal for an additional $75 with SoFi Plus.)

Update 7/23/25: Many people got an email from Rakuten that next week the offer will be $400/40,000. Highest ever.

Update 7/19/25: $375 in Rakuten app available again (ht ShawntheShawn)

Update 7/2/25: $375/37,500 Rakuten now available online or the Rakuten app. This matches the highest offer ever. Update: TCB is now at $350. 

Update 6/2/25: $350/35,000 via Rakuten website or $375/37,500 via the Rakuten app. This matches the highest offer ever.

(Expired) Update 6/12/25: $300/30,000 on Rakuten is back (ht Not Sam)

(Expired) Update 6/4/25: The $300/30,000 version is back

Update 5/25/25: [Expired] A lot of people are seeing $375/37,500 on Rakuten.

Rakuten link | Swagbucks link | another Swagbucks link | MyPoints link

Offer at a glance

  • Maximum bonus amount: $50 – $300
  • Availability: Nationwide
  •  Direct deposit required: Yes, $1,000 – $5,000
  • Additional requirements: None
  • Hard/soft pull: Soft (see also this comment)
  • Credit card funding: None
  • Monthly fees: None
  • Early account termination fee: ?
  • Household limit: None listed
  • Expiration date:  May 31, 2022 July 31, 2022 September 30, 2022 January 31, 2023

The Offer

Direct link to offer | Terms

  • SoFi is offering bonus of up to $300 for new customers who signup for their SoFi hybrid checking & savings account and receive direct deposit within 30 days:
    • Get $50 bonus with direct deposit of $1,000 – $1,999
    • Get $100 bonus with direct deposit of $2,000 – $4,999
    • Get $300 bonus with direct deposit of $5,000+

They seem to have rebranded from ‘SoFi Money’ to ‘SoFi Checking and Savings’.

 

The Fine Print

  • Eligible Participants: All new members who open a SoFi Checking and Savings account during the Promotion Period and all existing SoFi Checkings and Savings customers who have not previously set up Direct Deposit transactions (“Direct Deposit”) into their SoFi Checking and Savings account as of the beginning of the Promotion Period are eligible for the Program.
  • Bonus Terms:In order to qualify for eligibility for a bonus, SoFi must receive at least one Qualifying Direct Deposit (as defined below) from an Eligible Participant before the end of the Promotion Period. Qualifying Direct Deposits are defined as deposits of $1,000.00 or greater from an enrolled member’s employer, payroll, or benefits provider via ACH deposit. Deposits that are not from an employer (such as check deposits; P2P transfers such as from PayPal or Venmo, etc.; merchant transactions such as from PayPal, Stripe, Square, etc.; and external bank ACH transfers not from employers) and bank ACH transfers not from employers) do not qualify for this Direct Deposit promotion. The amount of the bonus, if any, will be calculated during the Evaluation Period as described and defined below.
  • Evaluation Period: The bonus amount will vary based on the total amount of Qualifying Direct Deposits received during the Evaluation Period. The Evaluation Period is defined as 25 days from the date your first Qualifying Direct Deposit is received. For example, if you receive $1,000-$1,999 in Qualifying Direct Deposits in the Evaluation Period, you will receive a cash bonus of $50. A member may only qualify for one bonus tier and will not be eligible for future bonus payments if inflows subsequently increase beyond the Evaluation Period.
  • Total Qualifying Direct Deposit amount in 30-day Evaluation Period Cash bonus
  • Payment timeline: SoFi will credit members who meet qualification criteria within 14 days of the end of the Evaluation Period.
  • This offer cannot be combined with the SoFi Checking and Savings Direct Deposit rate discount on a SoFi personal loan. Bonuses are considered miscellaneous income, and may be reportable to the IRS on Form 1099-MISC (or Form 1042-S, if applicable). SoFi reserves the right to exclude any Members from participating in the Program for any reason, including suspected fraud, misuse, or if suspicious activities are observed. SoFi also reserves the right to stop or make changes to the Program at any time.

Avoiding Fees

Monthly Fees

This account doesn’t have any monthly fees to worry about.

Early Account Termination Fee

Not sure if there is any early termination fee or not, but there is no monthly fee and it’s worth keeping the account open long term for the spending bonuses.

Update History

  • Update 5/12/25: A lot of people who saw the Rakuten bonus down to $300 are now seeing it back up to $375. (Personally mine dipped from $375 to $300 and still is showing $300 now.) Hat tip to r/churning
  • Update 5/4/25: $375 now on Rakuten, highest ever. (ht not sam and max) Update: apparently others are seeing $300 on Rakuten. That’s still from the best offers we’ve seen.
  • Update 4/7/25: Increased slightly to $265 and like $280 on Swagbucks/MyPoints. Still $250 on Rakuten.
  • Update 3/18/25: Currently the best offers are $250 on Rakuten, $230 on Swagbucks, and around $245 on MyPoints now. That’s on top of the $300 from SoFi.
  • Update 10/6/24: It’s up to $355 via the Rakuten app (app offer only). Combined with the $300 SoFi offering, this maxes out at $655 which is the highest ever. (ht Xander and yapp) Update: now $350 on Rakuten website as well
  • Update 8/20/24: The $350 Rakuten deal is expired. Best now is $230-$250 from SB/MP, plus the $300 from SoFi.
  • Update 8/19/24: Rakuten is now up to $350 which can lead to a total bonus of $650. Wow. (ht Peter and Jim)
  • Update 7/15/24: Rakuten is now up to $250/25,000; matches the best offer we’ve seen. MyPoints is around $250, Swagbucks $230. (ht Shawntheshawn)
  • Update: Now $200 and $300 for a total of $500.
  • Update 5/6/24: Rakuten is up to $250 and SoFi is at $300. I believe this $550 is the highest ever (and some people might even value Rakuten at even higher than $250).
  • Update 3/17/24: Both Rakuten and Swagbucks at $200 now; plus $300 from SoFi (ht Churnbaby)
  • Update 3/1/24: Currently $200 from Swagbucks and $300 from SoFi.
  • Update 11/26/23: Both Rakuten and Swagbucks at $200 now; plus $250 from SoFi (ht PN)
  • Update 11/25/23: Back to $200 on Swagbucks or $175 on Rakuten.
  • Update 10/18/23: Increased on Rakuten to $200/20,000
  • Update 10/13/23: This is still on Swagbucks for 20,000 ($200). It’s now also on Rakuten for $175/17,500 which some people might prefer. And you can still get $250 on top of that from SoFi directly when you use either link. (ht ShawntheShawn)
  • Update 6/26/23: Swagbucks is now up to $200 with $200 direct deposit. Plus you’ll get $250 from SoFi if you receive  $5,000 in direct deposits. Not as good as the all time highs of $520 total but now it’s close. (ht @addingpennies)
  • Update 4/28/23: Swagbucks/MyPoints are now at an extra $150 for $400 total. Not as good as the all time highs of $520 total but still a nice deal. Update 11/17/22: The Swagbucks/MP part is gone right now. The SoFi part is still at $250. Update 10/30/22: Swagbucks still at $220, but SoFi bonus part is down to $250 now (down from $300). Total bonus now of $470; Update 10/21/22: Swagbucks is now $220 on the home page + $300 SoFi bonus; Update 9/30/22: The $175 Swagbucks offer is back (direct link) and – like before – it links to the $300 direct deposit bonus page. Total $475 bonus possible. The $300 deal is valid from 10/1/22 through 12/31/22. Update 8/21/22: The $300 got extended until September 30th, the additional $175 Swagbucks bonus has still not returned. There’s a new referral offer which gives $325: $25 right away when signing up and depositing $10, plus $300 bonus with direct deposit mentioned below. That’s $25 better than the public link below. I don’t think we’ll make a referral thread for this now, you can google around to find a referral link. It might be smarter to wait to see if another Swagbucks deals comes back. Update 6/20/22: Swagbucks/MP component is gone for now. The $300 offer is still around.Update 6/14/22: Swagbucks is down to $75 now and MyPoints is gone. The $300 SoFi offer is still live. Update 5/27/22: The $300 SoFi bonus has been extended through July. We don’t know how long the Swagbucks/MyPoints component will last. (Another update 6/13/22: Reader thedailychurn suggests that if you click through Swagbucks before upgrading your SoFi Money account to become a SoFi Checking & Savings account the Swagbucks/MP can track the upgrade as a new account opening for the $175 bonus. You probably won’t get the $300 signup bonus, though, since it’s not a new account.) Update 5/2/22: They brought back the Swagbucks/MyPoints $175 bonus, so it’s back up to $475 now. Yay!; Update 4/24/22: The Swagbucks part of the deal has expired. The $300 SoFi bonus is still available.; Update: This $300 bonus seems to stack fine with the $175 Swagbucks deal we posted a few months back for a total $475. Simply click through Swagbucks (link | another link | MyPoints) and you’ll see the $300 offer on the landing page, so it should stack. I wonder if they’ll pull the Swagbucks offer as this $300 offer rolls out, so I’d sign up soon.

Our Verdict

I believe $300 is the most we’ve seen from SoFi Money bonuses, though this does require a $5,000 direct deposit. Some readers mention in the comments that SoFi is strict about what they consider to be a ‘direct deposit.’

It’s not clear how quickly you need to get the direct deposit, but it is clear that you have 30 days from when your first direct deposit posts to rack up the $5,000 in direct deposits. E.g. if you sign up on April 5th, get your first direct deposit on May 1, then you have from May 1st through May 30th to meet the $5,000 in combined total direct deposits to qualify for the full $300 bonus.

The fine print states that the income might be reported on a 1099-MISC form which might mean that it won’t get reported at all given the $600 minimum required for that form. Regardless, you’d be legally required to report the bonus.

Separately, the SoFi Money account is actually a nice account to have your regular direct deposit go to since they offer a nice, high APY rate for those who have a monthly direct deposit (any amount) post to their account. At time of this writing that rate is 1.25% APY with no deposit limit.

There’s one rumor in the comments that upgrading your existing SoFi Money account to the new SoFi checking and savings account will be eligible for the $300 bonus as well (though you’ll lose the free ATMs when upgrading), but I’m not assuming this is true unless it gets confirmed.

We’ve added this to our List of Best Bank Bonuses. 

Useful posts regarding bank bonuses:

  • A Beginners Guide To Bank Account Bonuses
  • Bank Account Quick Reference Table (Spreadsheet) (very useful for sorting bonuses by different parameters)
  • PSA: Don’t Call The Bank
  • Introduction To ChexSystems
  • Banks & Credit Unions That Are ChexSystems Inquiry Sensitive
  • What Banks & Credit Unions Do/Don’t Pull ChexSystems?
  • How To Use Our Direct Deposit Page For Bank Bonuses Page
  • Common Bank Bonus Misconceptions + Why You Should Give Them A Go
  • How Many Bank Accounts Can I Safely Open Within A Year For Bank Bonus Purposes?
  • Affiliate Links & Bank Bonuses – We Won’t Be Using Them
  • Complete List Of Ways To Close Bank Accounts At Each Bank
  • Banks That Allow/Don’t Allow Out Of State Checking Applications
  • Bank Bonus Posting Times
 
 
 

Jimmy Fallon and Bozoma Saint John on What It Takes for People, Products, and Brands to Break Through


 

ALISON BEARD:  I’m Alison Beard.

ADI IGNATIUS: I’m Adi Ignatius. This is HBR IdeaCast.

ALISON BEARD: Adi, you are very familiar with both of the guests on today’s show. One is a comedian and talk show host, Jimmy Fallon. The other is a marketing executive turned reality TV star, Bozoma Saint John. But what they have in common beyond TV is an expertise on how to create breakthrough moments for themselves, their offerings, and all of the brands that they’re associated with. We know that’s really important now because it’s an increasingly crowded, complex, confusing media and advertising market.

ADI IGNATIUS: Yeah. When you first told me you were going to interview Jimmy and Bozoma, my first thought was, okay, that’s pretty interesting. I’ve interviewed Boz, she’s incredible. She was an executive at Pepsi, at Apple, at Netflix. I get what she’s all about. Jimmy Fallon, I watched him on Saturday Night Live. I’ve watched him on The Tonight Show. He’s energetic, he’s entertaining. I’d be interested, what does he know about this? What does he have to say about marketing?

ALISON BEARD: They’re both people who over the course of their long careers in different ways, have shown a really uncanny ability to adapt to new trends, particularly technological ones, and keep capturing the attention and imagination of diverse consumers. Most recently, they’ve teamed up for a reality competition show called On Brand. It’s like Shark Tank, but it’s amateur creatives competing to design ad campaigns for companies like Dunkin and Southwest. I would say that the show vastly oversimplifies the business of marketing, but it is an interesting tool in and of itself because each episode functions as an ad, because it’s totally about one company. But it was a really good reason for getting them onto our show to talk about lots of issues, not just branding.

ADI IGNATIUS: No, I’m sure. Look, I mean, they’re both incredibly energetic and incredibly entertaining. Have an audience. I’m interested. What were some of those issues?

ALISON BEARD: In addition to talking about how to market companies and products, we talked about how to market yourself in your career. We talked about how they show up as leaders of creative teams and balance having strong points of view with being collaborative. We talked about how they innovate on different platforms like TikTok and YouTube, and then what type of marketing really does break through. Here is that interview with Bozoma Saint John, the former CMO of Netflix and Jimmy Fallon, host of The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. Together, they host On Brand.

The entertainment media and marketing industries have changed dramatically since both of you started your careers. There’s cable and then internet, and then streaming and then social. So what would you say is really the secret to capturing attention now, whether it’s an individual or a show or a corporate brand?

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Sure. I mean, God, you made it sound like we started the Stone Ages, girl.

ALISON BEARD: I mean it’s, that’s when I started.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: I’m like, speak for yourself. No, but you’re right. Look, the landscape has changed dramatically in the last 20 years, right? The way that consumers listen to entertainment or watch entertainment has changed. I find that being on top of just what people are communicating with each other is the only way in which you can be part of the conversation. Whether you’re a brand or an individual, a show l ike ours, I mean, obviously Jimmy is on TV every day, and so he has the pressure of being able to evolve so that he can continue to keep the audience that he has. So I guess my perspective is just from a brand lens, which is that in order to stay relevant, you really do have to pay attention to the time.

JIMMY FALLON: I think it changes a day by day by day by day. You never really can – there’s probably a couple of weeks where you’re like, “Hey, this is where everyone’s going and then it changes.” You’re like, “Nope, they invented a new thing called flip-flop. Everyone’s on flip-flop.” And you go, “What? I hadn’t even heard of that.” And they go, “Oh, you got to sign up. You’re late to the game.” But it’s always changing and I’m always interested in seeing what the next moves are, especially social media. When we first started Late Night, I remember one of our producers, Gavin Purcell, who’s fantastic. He was like, “You got to get on Twitter.” And I was like, “What is that?” He’s like, “Well, it’s this thing.” And he’s explaining Twitter to me. I go, “Okay,” and then I’m like, “And we’ll put our shows on Twitter.” He like, “Yeah. We can do streaming shows just before we even start up Late Night just to get a following going.”

And I remember getting maybe a hundred followers and I was jumping up and down. I was that into it. I love metrics. I love data. I love to see how things are going up or down or sideways or what type of people are listening or retweeting. We just jumped on and tried everything when it comes out and see if it works for you and you kind of have to learn it and adapt to it. I think number one is still YouTube as far as growth and how much engagement with everybody. It’s just the biggest thing and I don’t know if there’s anything close.

ALISON BEARD: When you have though all these channels varying in popularity, but all the smart people and shows and brands are on them or trying all of them. How do you craft either a persona or a campaign that can break through all of that noise?

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: I think some of it has to be consistency. Just back to the last question,  I also want to give props to Jimmy himself as a person because he really does throw himself into the creative and into the work. So yes, social media is a powerful tool, but without him actually being in it and doing the trend every day – my point is that it’s not just like, oh, there’s this tool on this platform out there and try to engage on it. Jimmy is putting himself in the work, and I think that’s actually necessary, whether it’s a show or a brand, the consistency is how you show up. If every day, you’re trying to be something different on the platform, nobody’s going to trust you. People, they don’t like that.

JIMMY FALLON: I think that’s also how you find your brand by trying everything on. You go, hey, do I wear bangs? Do I have a bob? Do I have a short hair? You have to try it to see if that’s your style. And you go, hey, I think I found my style everybody. I think for me growing up, I was a very fad type of person. I was ready into fads and trying new things, and I was wearing zipper pants. This is in the 80s and…

ALISON BEARD: Jams.

JIMMY FALLON: Jams is the best. I love my jams. Oh, my gosh. That generation I feel like there were things that were in for two years and then out. Even the music in the 80s, it’s a lot more one-hit wonder, I think, than any decade, but that was because everyone was trying new things and seeing what’s happened. So I think my brain, growing up in that generation of having one-offs and one-hit wonders and things constantly changing and what am I into probably influenced who I am today and how I can function with changing things, and are you good with change? A lot of people aren’t good with change and it freaks people out and they go, “I can’t have a new office. I’m used to my old office.” I go…

ALISON BEARD: Different platform. Same person. Yeah.

JIMMY FALLON: Yeah, I think so. But Bozoma was saying you have to try and you got to get up to bat and swing, and sometimes you hit a home run, sometimes you strike out, but at least you’re trying.

ALISON BEARD: Both of you have very strong personal brands, and I think a lot of that comes from authenticity. But how did you think about that as you built your careers? Bozoma for you in marketing with big jobs at Pepsi and Uber and Apple and Netflix and Jimmy for you with moving from stand up to SNL, to films, and then Late Night?

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: A personal brand is such an interesting thing because many people will say that like, “Oh, that’s a waste of time,” especially if you’re in corporate settings, but really it’s just new language for what a reputation is. When I started out in this business, of course, I was trying to mimic the successful people ahead of me. It’s like I looked at the corner offices and said, okay, what are they wearing? How do they talk in meetings? What are the ideas they bring? How do they do the thing they do and why do people listen to them? And I just tried to mimic it.

Unfortunately, that did not work and it didn’t work for all the reasons that now as more mature adults we know is because it just didn’t fit and you can’t be authentic. And I know it’s an overused word, but like we were saying before, even as Jimmy explained about trying things on and seeing what fits, for me, it was like this unraveling of who I was trying to be versus who I am. My personal brand became what it is and is because it’s actually just me.

I do wear interesting clothes and I do gesture a lot with my hands and I cry because I get emotional and my hair is always something different. All of those things allow me the freedom to be exactly who I am in every room. And it has made me a better executive. It has made me a better mother. It’s made me a better friend. It’s made me a better contributor to society and a better creative for all those reasons. And so I think the personal brand gets a little confused. Sometimes people are trying to strategize around it and I’m like, no, if you just become more of yourself, then that actually will sustain over time.

JIMMY FALLON: Is it because people can trust you?

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Yeah. Right. Because you never come out of character. You know what I mean?

JIMMY FALLON: Yeah. I forget who said, but someone said, yeah. God, I always tell the truth because it’s too much work to lie.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Yeah, it is too hard.

ALISON BEARD: What about you, Jimmy?

JIMMY FALLON: I think when I first started out, I was just hungry and I was focused on getting on Saturday Night Live. That was my goal. So I did stand-up and I did impressions of celebrities, because I knew that Saturday Live used those people on the show to do characters and impressions. So that was going to be my way into Saturday Night Live. So in my stand-up, I would do impressions of John Travolta. I’d be like, “Jeez, I swear to God. I can’t believe this over here. Sandy, what’s going on?” Right, yeah. I don’t know why but that led to other characters, which led to me doing Adam Sandler where it’s like [jibberish]. And you do all that type of stuff and then you go, oh, that stuff we can maybe use.

And I just think that was my ultimate goal is just getting into Saturday Night Live and let’s just check that off. That’s like the bucket list but that was my goal. And I got that at 23, and then once you get it, you go, okay, now what do I do with this? Because I didn’t plan ahead. I didn’t have three other goals. That was it for me. I’m like, uh-oh, I got to figure out what my next goal is.

Do you want to be a movie star? Do you want to be a sitcom star? Do you want to record music? What is your thing? I – So I’ve kind of had to think of a new goal and find it as I was going and see if it fit. I think always for me, as far as material-wise, it was very family friendly. I never really cursed in my act or I was kind of almost prudish.

I think it was my Irish Catholic upbringing, but that’s not really changed for me. So that kind of stayed on brand, but I think I just grew and said, well, maybe I can do this. And then with that didn’t work out. I tried movies, they didn’t really work. And then you just kind of go back to just trying stuff and seeing what sticks and getting into the talk show world, I didn’t really know what I was doing either there, but I got a lot of practice and I was on at 12:30 at night when no one was watching.

ALISON BEARD: I think a few people are watching.

JIMMY FALLON: Maybe like prison guards, and college kids. But I mean, I had to do that and kind of figure out there how to have an interview, how to talk to somebody. Am I nervous? I still get nervous but it’s fun because I care, I think, and I want to do a great job. But you get another opportunity and then you grow and you see how you can do that best.

ALISON BEARD: It sounds like you both very much found your distinct lanes, despite the fact that you’re both in crowded fields. How would each of you describe your leadership brand, right? Because both bosses, you’re running organizations, you’re running shows, you’re running teams of people. What is your unique style or the unique thing that you bring.

JIMMY FALLON: Boz is better at this than I am.

ALISON BEARD: Well, but you’re an informal leader even if you’re not called the CEO of The Tonight Show.

JIMMY FALLON: Yeah.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: But he’s still my boss. I still consider my boss, honestly. So I mean, hell, you’re a leader of me if nothing else. Okay.

JIMMY FALLON: Yeah, come on. But you have that feeling when you get in the room with Bozoma Saint John. You go, whoa, this is like, I can feel like-

ALISON BEARD: She’s in charge.

JIMMY FALLON: Yeah, well, you feel like someone smart is in the room. Whereas I’m here, it’s like, oh, my gosh, Uncle Buck is here.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Oh, my God, that is so ridiculous.

JIMMY FALLON: Substitute teachers here. I’m always reading books, and I’d be curious to ask you also what books I should read too for management. And I love all that stuff and I love self-help books and learning constantly about how to do it better. And even if not, remind yourself of what works and what doesn’t work. Being mad doesn’t work. I know that.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Yeah, being mad doesn’t work.

JIMMY FALLON: It just does, right?

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: It’s so interesting. I think my leadership style has changed, of course, over years and different experiences. The way that I led my Apple Music team in launching the brand and the service itself was far different from the way I led when I became chief marketing officer of Netflix. One because they were so different in terms of not just the product but the time. I started Netflix, we were two months into the pandemic. And I remember my first staff meeting, I mean, there’s well over a thousand marketers, and I didn’t see anybody’s face. And I think I’m the kind of leader that does need to be in the room. I like in front of people. I want to see your face and your reaction and see if what I’m saying is inspiring. Is it funny? Are you confused by what I’m saying? I need all of that to be able to-

JIMMY FALLON: A reaction.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Yeah, I need something! And it was such an impossible time of trying to inspire people to be more creative and think out of the box and all of the things that we say at a time when nobody knew what the hell was going on.

But the constant theme throughout, I think, for me in leadership has always been knowing the detail of what is going on, understanding what people are interested in on my teams, because the challenge is that you put all of the pressure on the results and you don’t think about the people. I have had the kind of career where in order to really do the work, we had to be so close to culture that I needed different types of people on my team, people who didn’t know what I know.

I take a lot from physics, which is the idea of matter. That matter is made up of molecules and you change one molecule and the entire matter changes. And for me, I’m like, matter is a team, the people that I’m working with, and you change one molecule and the whole thing changes. And so understanding the importance of every single person who is contributing, they can be the assistant or they could be the SVP of a region, their contributions are so important. So making people know that so that they want to show up to their job, they want to do the best job that they could do because they know how important they are, because I told them that has been a constant leadership tool for me.

ALISON BEARD: I love that.

JIMMY FALLON: Also what you just said too, also showing up I think is one thing that you learn as the more you do this is that all the great leaders show up.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: sYes.

JIMMY FALLON: Whether it’s a restaurant. I’ve seen restaurants fail because you go, hey, we had a great year. I don’t have to go in anymore. And you go, no.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Wait, Jimmy, I’m going to interrupt you one second because actually, I have a story about Jimmy on his leadership, and this is going to embarrass you, so whatever, you just got to deal with it. We had over 270 crew members, I think, on On Brand, and I’ve always felt that I’m a friendly person. I see people, I say hello, all of that stuff, but I’ve never seen anyone do it like Jimmy does, meaning that we were walking onto set one day and somebody was nailing something on a wall, bent over in the corner, and Jimmy was like, “Hey bud, you’re doing a great job.”

I’ve never seen anybody do that in my life. You know what I mean? Just paying attention to the small things. And the showing up is also in recognizing people’s contributions. And so for Jimmy, I think leadership is not just how he commands a production to be done or his contributions to like, oh, let’s use this line or change this word, but also making people feel like they are part of something even bigger and that they’re important, and I saw that in action.

ALISON BEARD: Yeah. It sounds like the sort of infectious spirit that you bring to the show, to public facing engagements, you’re also practicing behind the scenes. Did you learn that leadership style, the idea of keeping it fun, of showing gratitude to even the smallest players? Did you learn that on SNL from people like Lorne Michaels?

JIMMY FALLON: Lorne Michaels, yes, definitely. I think that’s one of the things I learned from him is showing up and just being there for everybody. I think as the part of gratitude, one of my biggest lessons I learned from Cameron Crowe, who’s a great writer-director but he directed me. I was in Almost Famous. You can cue the applause now.

ALISON BEARD: We’re going to go straight to Fever Pitch, but okay.

JIMMY FALLON: No, I’ll start with my first one and I’ll go into my filmography after that. This podcast is three hours, right? All right, perfect. So I remember I was on set and I saw Cameron giving notes to this extra, and he was like, “Okay, you had a long day. Okay, you got three more tables and then you get to go home,” just giving direction to this extra, and then they did action, and the extras didn’t have any lines, just in the background.

And I was like, “Whoa.” No one was looking at him. He was just him and this extra talking and he made that person feel like a million bucks. And that made everybody go like, we are all doing this. Everybody’s worth something here. This is awesome, and I’ll never forget that. It was the coolest thing that he did. So I think combo of that, Lorne Michaels and Saturday Night Live, and I think all the different hosts that come in on Saturday Night Live too, and talking to all them and just seeing how, yeah –

ALISON BEARD: Some people brought that sort of positive addition to the matter that Boz was talking about, and some didn’t, I imagine.

JIMMY FALLON: Yeah, and caring and just go like, oh, that was great what you did. I like that. When these celebrities host Saturday Night Live, they’re coming to a place that they’re not used to. So if you have Robert De Niro, for example, I remember him asking me where his mark was. “Jimmy, where’s my mark?” I’m like, “I’m not going to tell Robert De Niro anything. You can stand wherever you want, dude, I’m good.” He’s like, “No, I don’t really know because I’ve never done this.” And I go, “Oh, it’s right there. And then you’re going to land, you’re going to say the lines facing that way.” He say, “Okay. Cool.” Just help each other. We’re on the team now. I’m like, I just totally helped. I gave direction to Robert De Niro, what is going on in my life? And he loved it, but we would laugh and it was just great.

ALISON BEARD: So we all know that the best creative teams come from putting people together with diverse points of view and everyone sharing their ideas and brainstorming together. But how do you all as strong personalities with good ideas, I imagine because you’ve been very successful, how do you balance expressing your own opinions, putting your own stamp on things with also working collaboratively and bringing in the opinions of others?

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN:

That’s a tough one.

JIMMY FALLON:

Yeah, that’s a good one.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: For me, I get very passionate in every job I’ve had, passionate about how the things should land because I’m like, oh, I know that’s going to garner results. Sometimes I’ve been wrong, but I always have a strong point of view. I’m thinking back to times when it’s like, look, as part of a creative team, you do have to follow the direction of whomever is in charge.

It’s kind of like any like a coach or general or something. If everybody doesn’t fall in line, it’s liable that you go wrong. And so at some point as a creative, you can have a strong idea. You can think it’s the best one, but if it is not the one that goes forward, you have to submit and help the next person. And so going back to your question about leadership, it is something I’ve always encouraged my teams, which is that once I’ve been in the seat as the CMO to decide which idea goes forward, and now everybody get behind that idea.

ALISON BEARD: Disagree, and then commit.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Oh, I oh, we should have done this, should have done that. That’s when we’re all going to fail. So it’s like once an idea has been chosen to go forward, everybody put your energy into making sure that that idea is what wins.

ALISON BEARD: How do you steer people with good, well-meaning ideas in better directions?

JIMMY FALLON: This is just me, but I always like to say at least my point of view on something just to say it. And then there’s probably someone in the room that might be better at whatever the thing is, and I’ll let them hear my idea and hopefully, it sparks something that they can land the plane and I don’t need to take credit for it.

For instance, Southwest, we did this episode last night that you watched, but the challenge was to wrap a plane – basically paint the side of an airplane. So it’s a big thing and we’re going, well, blah, blah, blah. How do you do that? Well, this is going to be seen by a lot of people. And then Bozoma goes, “Well, when I wrapped a plane for Beats.” I go, “You wrapped a plane.” Who else? I mean, we’re talking to someone who’s done this. How many people do you know that wrapped a plane before?

ALISON BEARD: I don’t.

JIMMY FALLON: Yeah, I know now you do. Now you know two people but it’s wild. It was like she knows she’s done this. What hits? What do people look at? What do they see? What are the things that pop? And you kind of go, that’s great. We have someone that’s played the game before.

ALISON BEARD: So Jimmy, why at this point in your career did you feel qualified to host a show on branding and marketing?

JIMMY FALLON: I think because of all the years of Late Night and Tonight Show, and my job is basically selling things for my guests. I have them on and I pitch their movies or their music, or I’m selling their wares, their products. I’ve kind of enjoyed it when we have an integration or some brand goes, “Hey, is there any way you can mention toilet paper this week in the show?” And I go, “Love it, bring it on. What do you want? I can write whatever I want, right?” I go, “I will think of something.” And then I go, “Yeah,” and we’ll talk about, “Hey, do you put the toilet paper roll over the top or do you put the toilet paper roll with the paper coming under?” And you have a debate and people get in fights, and it’s funny. That’s a fun challenge. So I’ve done that for the past 15 years. So that’s a long time, a lot of shows. I think tonight’s hitting almost like it’s 2,300th show or something crazy.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Oh, my God. That’s so amazing.

JIMMY FALLON: So I kind of love the stuff, and I had a weird, again, just an odd idea, and I didn’t have to throw them out to people. And so I pitched it to NBC. I typed it up, you know, bothered my wife with all these questions for months, and then I go, “I think this is something I could pitch,” And I pitched to NBC and they said, “No, but thank you so much. You keep these ideas coming buddy and stay strong at Late Night.” And you go, “Okay.”

And then I was like, I didn’t let it die. I was like, I really do think this is something you should give a chance to. I think it’s different. And as Bozoma was saying, at one point, we were talking about this and we’re like, because a brand new type of business structure, even to repaying for the show and all this stuff, but also what Bozoma was saying, it’s kind of like a new toy to play with for brands. Like, how much fun can we have?

ALISON BEARD: Yeah, the companies are sort of sponsoring each episode basically. And so the advertisement isn’t necessarily what’s generated by the contestants, it’s the show itself.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: I also want to say that I know Jimmy, he’s creative and he has done a lot of work with brands, but he’s also a student of marketing. W e were just on a show together where we’re playing a little quiz game of like, oh, the taglines and this and that, and Jimmy, he was getting them. And not only that, he’s got the jingles and he remembers. And so it’s like for someone who hasn’t had a formal career in marketing, he’s still an ad guy. I would consider him an ad guy. There’s a natural love and curiosity for the business of marketing and advertising. And so that I think also has a great deal to do with why it’s natural for him to be the one who developed the show and brought it to the world.

JIMMY FALLON: I mean, I love a good ad. Don’t you love to see a good campaign?

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Yes, absolutely.

JIMMY FALLON: I love a great campaign. I think Ryan Reynolds is knocking it out of the park.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN:

Amazing.

ALISON BEARD: We actually, he’s going to co-author, an article in our next issue about Fastvertising and how to quickly capitalize on.

JIMMY FALLON: Oh, he’s best at that. And also probably people wouldn’t have normally given him a chance had he been on a team or a famous ad agency. I mean, I think he used his fame to go like, give me a chance. I’m going to roll the dice on this.

ALISON BEARD: Yeah. It sounds like you’re saying that in this very crowded marketplace as companies are thinking about how to break through, brand integration is one avenue that everyone’s keen on. There is a sort of obviousness to it though, right? So how do you do it in a way that does feel authentic and not just like, ugh, I’m being marketed to right now?

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Well, I think it should be obvious. I feel like that’s where brands go wrong when they try to be in a place where they’re not naturally. We excuse Jimmy because he can actually do it very well. So toilet paper maybe doesn’t belong on his desk but he’s going to find a way to bring it in. But the challenge most times is that brands are trying to find integration in scenarios where they simply shouldn’t be because it’s not natural for them to be there. And that’s why it falls apart, not because somebody was sitting there holding their thing and saying, hey, look at this thing, but because it just wasn’t natural to them. And so it’s like, look, when you’re in this space, it should be obvious that I picked up my Pepsi and drank it because I was thirsty.

ALISON BEARD: And then the second avenue you talked about was this idea of capitalizing on cultural moments. And Jimmy, you certainly do that with your show. Bozoma, you did it. I’m sure working at Netflix and Apple and all these sort of fast-paced consumer brands, talk about how you do that in a way that doesn’t seem ham-handed and actually does sort of reach the audience you’re trying to get to.

JIMMY FALLON: Again, there has to be some authenticity behind it too, even though it is the moment, but you take the moment and how do you make it you. So if it is doing a Taylor Swift dance challenge, I can do it with Taylor. The other way to do it is just do the dance challenge myself and be a 51-year-old man trying to do a dance challenge on TikTok, and that’s what it looks like. And it’s like that’s more authentic. And you go, he’s not trying to be a teenager. He’s acting his age. I mean, I’m feeling it now. My era, I’m feeling I’m going into my old man era or getting older era. I feel like if I’m at a high top table, if I go to a restaurant with a high top, if I drop my napkin, I’m not picking it up.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: No, no, it’s not.

JIMMY FALLON: My back will hurt.

ALISON BEARD: And we definitely can’t read the writing on the menus either, so.

JIMMY FALLON: I am not the person yet that turns the flashlight on, but I’m real close.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: I’m there. You know what I mean?

JIMMY FALLON: I’m real close.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Yeah.

ALISON BEARD: So speaking of being of the moment, as a star, as a show, as a brand, it is a very divisive time politically in the U.S. We’ve seen companies come under fire for moves, celebrities canceled and executives are really unsure what sort of risks they can take right now. And I think the most recent example, obviously in your world, Jimmy, is ABC pulling Jimmy Kimmel off the air for comments about Charlie Kirk.

And you have made a point of being family friendly and apolitical. So just talk a little bit about why you’ve made that decision and are sticking to it. And then I’d love to hear from both of you on how you think that corporate brands can navigate this moment and sort of do the right thing, speak out in moments that they find appropriate, but then not get embroiled in controversy. Jimmy, why don’t you start?

JIMMY FALLON: I mean, it’s also tricky and it’s all kind of moving very fast. Obviously, if there’s a case of government versus the artist, I’m on the artist side. I think everyone should be able to say whatever they want. And I think for me, I’ve kind of learned from Saturday Night Live how close you can get to the edge for myself, which is being authentic. I think my monologues have kind of always been kind of the same. I have probably four or five jokes that are kind of about the political world, and then five jokes about fast food or something. I think if you look in the New York Times the next day, I’m up there, my jokes are up there with all the other guys, but I diversify myself with more poppy stuff. That’s just because of what I’m into.

They do it better than me, the politics stuff, and I’m happy that we have different voices out there and all talking. And if you want that, you can get it. So I think I just stick to what I do best, and whether it be me dressing up as a showgirl and dancing, with the K-pop Demon Hunters, that’s feels on brand to me. I’m not sure if I would want to see any of the other guys do that. So I can only pay attention to myself and do what I think is the funniest, sharpest, and most entertaining stuff every night.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Yeah, I think in the executive world, it gets tricky because you’re representing yourself but you’re also representing the company. Where I think sometimes executives get scared, of course, is that their own personal view is going to be taken out of context or punish the company in a way. And I’m like, that is the truth. So grow up, take a stand, say something, and if you get fired, so be it.

And I remember that I was having a lot of these conversations five years ago when it is like Black Lives Matter was popping off and George Floyd had been murdered. And there’d been like, people were like, “Oh, should we make a statement?” And I had so many friends in the executive space. We were in our little group chats and people were like, “What should I say?” And I’m like, “Well, what do you believe?”

JIMMY FALLON: Start there.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: You’ve got to start with wherever you are. And first of all, this is way different from 20 years ago where the society did not expect to understand who’s behind the wall. It is like now people want to know what did the CEO think? What is their opinion on things? Where do they stand? What does the company care for? Those are all things that our consumers and our audiences want to know. And so you have to express it. And unfortunately, it’s like if that has backlash, then that is the job.

ALISON BEARD: What advice would you give to the senior leaders in our audience who are trying to make their brand stand out right now, especially when it’s hard to take risks?

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Well, I don’t know why you have your job if you can’t have a stance on something. You have to have an opinion, whether that is cultural opinion or it is an opinion about innovation and what you’re going to create next for your company. I don’t know of any senior leader who’s been put in the job just to tread water. It’s like you’ve got to actually make a change. You’ve got to actually make some impact in the work that you’re doing. And so I don’t have a lot of respect for leaders who come in and do nothing.

ALISON BEARD: Jimmy.

JIMMY FALLON: I think be different as much as you can, be different, take chances, take risks. Everyone says take risks, obviously, but I mean, really do something fresh, do something new and something we haven’t seen and that will pop. I think you’ve seen that with Super Bowl commercials, which I always go back to just a fan, but having a celebrity in a commercial used to be the big thing. Oh, my gosh, it’s Michael Jackson drinking Pepsi. Oh, my gosh. Now that’s every commercial. So now what do you do? Because that already is done.

So now sometimes it was a QR code and you go, what is that? That was the whole ad. I don’t even know if it worked, but it was something different and it popped and you go, people were talking about it. So I think there’s many ways to attack it from different angles. And I think just write them all out. See what way you can do it and try to see what’s the next or clever or different angle that no one else is doing and do that. And if you can do that and have people think that they’ve seen it before, that is the secret sauce. Because if you go like, oh, yeah, I’m used to, that’s of course. Where’s the beef? I always say that.

ALISON BEARD: Surprise that it becomes instantly familiar.

JIMMY FALLON: Yes. Well said. Well said.

ALISON BEARD: Okay, I have one recommendation for next season, an AI contestant.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Oh, that’s interesting.

JIMMY FALLON: Wow.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Wow. That would be something, because that’s a whole –

JIMMY FALLON: I think it would be-

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Alison wants us to be embroiled in controversy is what’s happening.

JIMMY FALLON: I think that would be…

ALISON BEARD: Really interesting.

JIMMY FALLON: … hilarious.

ALISON BEARD: Brainstorming. It’s developing concepts. It’s thinking out of the box.

JIMMY FALLON: Do you think it would work? I don’t think it would work.

ALISON BEARD: I mean, or maybe AI assistance something. I think it’s something to explore. Yeah. I did talk to an executive who said the one thing AI doesn’t have is taste, and so maybe that is the problem.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: That’s what it is.

ALISON BEARD: Okay.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: We got some people who didn’t have no taste either, so there you go.

JIMMY FALLON: Exactly.

ALISON BEARD: Well, thank you both so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

JIMMY FALLON: This was awesome. We loved it.

BOZOMA SAINT JOHN: Thank you so much.

ALISON BEARD: That was marketing executive Bozoma Saint John and comedian Jimmy Fallon, who also hosts the new NBC show On Brand. Next week, Adi looks at the impact of Freakonomics, 20 years after its publication, with author Stephen Dubner.

If you found this episode helpful, please share it with a colleague and be sure to subscribe and rate IdeaCast in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. If you want to help leaders move the world forward, consider subscribing to Harvard Business Review. You’ll get access to the HBR mobile app, the weekly exclusive Insider newsletter, and unlimited access to HBR online. Just head to HBR.org/subscribe.

Thanks to our team: Senior producer Mary Dooe, Audio product manager Ian Fox, and Senior Production Specialist Rob Eckhardt. And thanks to you for listening to the HBR IdeaCast. We’ll be back with a new episode on Tuesday. I’m Alison Beard.