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Why 62% of Americans Never Break into Millionaire Status


Is the “long fizzle” the housing market’s next chapter? With mortgage rates still high and interest rates keeping cash parked in T-bills, many buyers are sidelined, pointing to a housing market prediction of flat home prices in nominal terms and falling housing prices after inflation. Dave and analyst Nick Maggiulli connect today’s risk-on/risk-off behavior back to housing and outline three paths: melt-up followed by a correction, a long fizzle, or a supply-driven drop that’s least likely. Nick also shares a practical playbook so you can position for any housing market forecast, focus on income growth, keep investing steadily, and aim for “doubles” in real estate while protecting your downside.

Dave:
There is no one size fits all investing advice. Realistically, a dollar means something different to you if your net worth is $10,000 than it does if your net worth is a million dollars, and that is where the Wealth Ladder comes in. It’s a concept to help guide financial choices at the different levels of wealth and stages of an investing career. And today I’m speaking with the author who invented the Wealth Ladder concept about how it can help any investor in any market conditions. Hey everyone, I’m Dave Meyer and this is On the Market. Our guest on the show today is Nick Maggiulli. He’s the Chief operating Officer at Writ Holt’s Wealth Management and the New York Times bestselling author of Just Keep Buying. He also just released a new book called The Wealth Ladder. Nick has been on the show before about three years ago, but I wanted to bring him back to talk about his wealth ladder concept and how investing in real estate can fit into an investing career at many different stages. Nick is a true thought leader. I listened to him on all kinds of economic topics, including the housing market and this wealth ladder concept that he has is an innovative and really useful framework for organizing, investing ideas no matter what ad asset class you’re investing in or where you’re starting from. So let’s bring on Nick. Nick, welcome back to On the Market. Thanks for being here.

Nick:
Thanks for having me back on. Appreciate it.

Dave:
For those of our audience who didn’t catch your first appearance here, which was three years ago at this point, can you fill us in on your background and how you’re sort of related to the world of finance and investing?

Nick:
Yeah, so I was an economics major in college. I went into litigation consulting shortly thereafter, which is kind of like, it’s different than management consulting, it’s data-driven, a lot of programming and stuff. And so I had a very analytical background, but I also love personal finance, so I started writing about it in 2017 and then I eventually left the consulting world and I joined up at a wealth management firm where holds wealth management where I’ve been ever since. And so I’ve been writing about personal finance and now I’m actually the COO at a wealth management company. We have over 6 billion in assets, and so it’s just been quite a journey, just everything, the transitions that have happened over the past few years.

Dave:
We had Nick back on in September of 22 talking about his first book. That was your first book, just keep buying.

Nick:
Yeah. Yeah, first book,

Dave:
Which is an awesome book. I think you mostly wrote it in the perspective of equities investing, but on this show we talk a lot about just the concept of dollar cost averaging even in real estate investing. So a really applicable lessons and information there for our audience as well. You do have a new book which we want to talk about, but Ian and I are producer on your blog earlier looking at a article you wrote called It’s the Housing Stupid, and I obviously had to click on that and look at it. And so it sounds like reading through this, you think housing is sort of what are the epicenters or what are the things that’s causing just all this weird sentiment, all this weird behavior in the broader economy? Right.

Nick:
Yeah, I think there’s two things that are going on right now that seem very off. One is that there’s like meme stock kind of activity. Again, crypto prices are up a ton, not just Bitcoin. I mean I think this is across the board. We’re seeing stuff like the open door thing where open doors price just went through the roof. So we’re seeing kind of 2021 esque levels of not mania, but a little bit of craziness. And at the same time there’s tons of money in treasury bills and money market funds. That money is just piling and piling up. So it’s like why is this happening? Why is there so much? I know rates are higher, that’s one thing,
But
There’s just money just keeps piling up. And my answer to this is money that would normally be going to buy housing and to buy houses is not going there. So that’s a large expense for most people. I mean, the typical American has over half of their assets in their home. So when you think about that, they’re funneling money toward that. And now there’s a lot of people, there’s a cohort of people who are not buying homes that normally would be buying homes, and so that money is either chasing meme stocks or if that person’s more conservative, it’s probably sitting in a money market fund, which is what’s happening. In my case, I’m rolling treasury bills every few months because I’m like, well, I’m waiting for rates to come down. And they said they would’ve been down by now, but they’re still not down. And so we’re waiting and waiting. And so I think that the housing, it’s a bigger issue. I think obviously people are delaying marriage and there’s a lot of other things people are choosing not to buy houses as early, but I think because of prices and rates, it’s just the perfect storm of very difficult to get housing. Now, even for people that could easily afford it, they’re like, why am I going to go pay 7% for money? This is kind of crazy. So I think it’s distorting a lot of things.

Dave:
It makes so much sense to me because you do look at these almost conflicting ideas, this extreme risk taking on one end of the spectrum and then this move towards conservative investments and wealth preservation on the other side of the spectrum and what you just said is the first thing that can help me make sense of how those two things can be going on simultaneously. Even though there’s a lot of data that suggests the average American consumer is struggling, the people who do perhaps have some money that they would normally put in a down payment, renovating a home, whatever it is, maybe they’re putting their money there at the end of the article. You also go into three scenarios that you think how this could sort of resolve itself. Can you give us an overview of those?

Nick:
Yeah, so one of the scenarios is that there’s some sort of melt up because as rates come down, everyone starts trying to buy, prices go up, and then there’s a crash. So it’s kind of an oh eight again, it’s possibility.

Dave:
Yeah.

Nick:
Another scenario is I’m thinking we see what I call a long fizzle where maybe house prices don’t keep going up, but in real terms inflation kicks up and then house prices kind of stay flat, and so there’s kind of a negative real return over time that’s a possibility. And then there’s just the possibility of just a massive crash. We build a ton, and then that because of all the extra supply house prices come down of those three, I think that build a ton and house prices come down is the least likely for a host of reasons. It’s a political nightmare. We can talk all about that. But of the three, I think either a boom and crash or a long fizzle seems most likely, as much as I would love the Austin Texas story to happen where we built a lot of units and then prices come down and now more people can afford homes, I don’t see that happening on any sort of national scale, especially given all of the political holdouts there are for that which we could definitely get into.

Dave:
All right, well, I’m with you on that. I think what you’re calling the long fizzle is the most likely scenario. We have a lot of housing economists who come on their show, and that does seem to be what the data suggests. Obviously there are other things that can happen, but when you look at the data, that does seem to be the most likely scenario. So I’m with you on that, but let’s start to the book because I just picked it up and have been sort of fascinated by just the concept and this rethinking of different levels of wealth and the purposes of wealth that you write about. So maybe just give us a high level overview of the wealth ladder.

Nick:
So the wealth ladder is a new framework for thinking about building wealth, and the main premise is that your financial strategy should change over time and especially as you build wealth or you should consider different strategies at least. And so I took wealth and I broke it into six distinct levels based on your net worth. I’ll get into those levels in a second, but once you have these six distinct levels, you obviously figure out which level you’re on, and then from there there’s different spending income and investment decisions you would make across the ladder depending on which level you’re in. And so these six levels are, once again, this is all net worth and this is household net worth. So if you have a spouse or something, include all of their assets and their liability. So take all your assets minus all your liabilities, that’s your net worth based on that, you’re one of these six levels.
Level one is less than $10,000. Level two is 10,000 to $100,000. Level three is 100,000 to $1 million. Level four is 1 million to $10 million, level five is 10 million to a hundred million dollars, and level six is 100 million plus. Now about these levels, they actually break up US household wealth quite well. About 20% of US households are in level one that’s less than 10,000, 20% are in level two, which is 10,000 to a hundred thousand. 40% are in level three, which is a hundred thousand to a million. About 18% are in level four, which is one to 10 million, and then the top 2% is levels five and six and mostly level five. There’s only about 10,000 households in level six. And just the easy way to remember this, just remember level three is a hundred thousand to a million dollars in total net worth, and from there you can just multiply by 10 to go up a level or divide by 10 to go down a level. And from that, there’s all sorts of conversations that can be had about spending income investments within each level and different strategies and things to think about to move up and things to avoid to prevent yourself from falling down the ladder.

Dave:
And so is that how you divide this up? Were you looking to make equal buckets or are the cutoffs for these levels in the latter more functional in that this is you get to a hundred thousand dollars and your life changes in X, Y, Z ways?

Nick:
Yeah, I tried to do it more as a useful framework and less of a precise framework. I could have been like, okay, actually if we want to make everyone the same size bucket, we then come up with some sort of framework for that. The problem with that is the numbers are going to be hard to memorize. It’s going to be hard for that idea to spread. I think there’s a tradeoff between precision and usefulness, and I kind of gave up some of the precision. Obviously this is an arbitrary, I’ll be the first to say this is an arbitrary framework, but using the 10 x thing, it actually makes sense when you think about spending categories and a host of other things, which we’ll get into. But I think it’s very useful because it’s like, yeah, most of the people in level three have roughly similar lives. I would say a lot of the people in level four can have similar lives. Obviously this is not true in the extremes. The person with $1 million is a very different life than the person with $9.9 million, right?

Dave:
Yes.

Nick:
But closer to the center of the person with four and six probably are very similar, even though there’s 2 million difference there. It’s not like that’s like, okay, I can now fly private jets. I can have caviar every day. It’s like that doesn’t really change your consumption. It doesn’t change your lifestyle all that much. And for those people that are in those levels, they will know even if by the time you’re 4 million bucks, another a hundred thousand dollars is not going to change your life at all, even though that would fundamentally change someone’s life who had nothing, it would really change someone’s life at zero. So I think people understand this, the usefulness of money kind of drops over time, and that’s kind of built into the system or the framework here.

Dave:
Now the numbers that we’re using, whether it’s a hundred thousand or a million dollars, you’ve chosen to use liquid net worth as the measurement, not income or total net worth. So why did you choose that?

Nick:
I use overall net worth for the latter when we’re talking about spending decisions, which we can get into. I use liquid net worth for that particular thing, and we can get into why I don’t think you can’t really eat your home equity, I really don’t think you should be spending based on your retirement assets. Those are kind of allocated for future spending. So if we take those out when we’re talking about spending decisions, that’s where I think liquid net worth matters. Outside of that though, I think when I’m just talking about the levels, I was using total net worth and I think you should use total for that reason.

Dave:
Okay, got it. So tell me, you said earlier that a big premise of this is that where you fall on this ladder should impact your spending decisions and your investing decisions. So let’s just start at the bottom 10,000 or less. What should people at that level be doing?

Nick:
So for someone in level one, I think the most important thing is getting some sense of safety. And I don’t just mean financial safety, okay, have an emergency fund. People kind of have heard that advice before. It’s still true. That doesn’t change. I think you need to think about safety more broadly. So are there people in your network you can rely on? Do you have family? Do you have friends you could rely on? If you’re in level one and you’re struggling for those people who are not in level one, are there people in your life that are in level one that maybe you can help them out? And I don’t mean give them money, I don’t think that’s the solution here. You need to provide them support so they can do it on their own. I think that also builds the skills and all the things you need.
Just handing people checks is not the way to do this. It doesn’t solve the long-term problem, which is like how do they get income? How do they save money? How do they build their own wealth? That’s what we ultimately want for everybody. We don’t just want people just getting checks as great as that is. And that can be helpful in certain times and for certain circumstances, for the most part, we want people doing it on their own. And so I think the thing to think about in level one, if you know someone in level one or if you are in level one, it’s like, well, I need to get to some sense of safety. And so that means having financial resources, that means maybe having friends or family you could rely on in case you get into a difficult spot financially

Dave:
That’s $10,000 or less. Clearly,

Nick:
Yeah,

Dave:
You’re not in a position especially for our here to be making investments, particularly in real estate capital intensive industry as it is, that’s probably not going to make sense to you when you move to level two. As someone who invest in real estate and helps people invest in real estate on the low end, very difficult to invest in real estate. Just as an example, on the high end, you can start thinking about buying a duplex triplex. So for me, this is a super broad range, but what commonalities exist in this level to range for people of 10,000 to a hundred thousand?

Nick:
There’s different types of people in level two. And so I think it’s the hardest level just to straight up classify only because there’s people in level two now that are just, they’re just temporary visitors. They’re on their way to level three or level four. They just need time. They had high income, they probably have a good career trajectory, they’re going to work hard, they’re going to get themselves into level three or level four. And then there’s people in level two who maybe their income’s not as good, they’ve saved some money, maybe they have a 401k, they have something set up, they’re just starting. Maybe they got a property or something, but their income doesn’t allow them to save enough money. And so I think the big thing there, it’s like if you’re in the group of the level two where you’re not earning a lot and it’s not time, time’s not your issue, it’s more about just your earning power.
You need to find ways to raise your income, and that includes different education, getting skills. This is a very broad, when I say education, I mean that very broadly. I don’t think everyone needs to be going to college, but what are the skills you can learn that can help you raise your income over time? And I really focus on that. I think that’s true of everyone in level two. But for example, when I graduated from college, even though my net worth was technically below 10,000, I would say through because of my education, because of family and stuff, I was in level two, not level one, just through proxy. And so I started my wealth journey in level two. And going from there, I was just a temporary visitor because I was planning to work hard. I obviously didn’t get unlucky with any things thankfully. So I was able to get into level three within a few years of just saving money, working hard, and doing that. And so I think the thing to think about in level two is what’s the education? What’s the skills I can get so I can change my trajectory? You can imagine you’re earning potentials like a slope and you want to do whatever you can to increase that slope so that in the future all you need is time. So you kind of
Change from, as I said, there’s two groups in level two, those that are temporary visitors and those that are probably going to stay there permanently unless they change their skills or something. The goal is to go from the second group and become the first group because then it’s just like, oh, I already got the skills. I just need time now to get out of this level.

Dave:
That makes a lot of sense to me. One of the things we come across in the real estate investing industry a lot is people are in this group too. I think that’s probably where most people start paying attention to BiggerPockets or thinking about real estate investing and they ask themselves questions, should I go full-time into real estate or should I stay at my job and keep investing? But it sounds like your recommendation is just maximize your income potential. So educate yourself whether that’s you’re going to get really good at being a real estate agent or maybe you have a good job or a career trajectory that’s going to allow you to maximize whatever it is for the next 20, 30 years that will allow you to then invest into other things, but you don’t need to make investing or real estate your full-time job as long as you are able to focus on building and maximizing that earning potential over time.

Nick:
Yeah, exactly. And I think the thing to think about here is what are your strengths? What are those things that you’re very good at? For some people it might be real estate, real estate investing, and that’s great, and if you can start working on that and get better at it and build it, that’s great. But I think there’s a lot of people that can just stay in their current trajectory, have that job, as long as they’re getting the promotions kind of, they have a path forward. If you’re capped out, you may want to say, okay, I’m going to do a side hustle. I’m going to do something else. Maybe I will start really learning real estate to the point where I’m making more off of it so I can make a transition. But I think it’s really situation dependent. Some people would be much better suited to keep doing what they’re doing. Others would be better suited to make that jump into real estate.

Dave:
All right. Let’s move on to level three, which is another really interesting group that you talk about, but we got to take a quick break, but we’ll be right back. Welcome back to On The Market. I’m here with author and analyst and investor Nick Majuli talking about his new book, the Wealth Ladder. We’ve been talking about just how these different broad buckets of wealth influence how you should be thinking about money, the investing strategies, the income earning strategies that you should be thinking about. If we talks about one and two, I want to get to three because I think this is where a lot of people get stuck, at least in my experience, and it’s not a bad place to be. I mean having a hundred thousand to a million dollars in net worth is a fantastic place, but a lot of people dream about that, but I don’t know if you’ve seen this, but in my experience, coaching people in real estate, getting from three to four is a really big jump. Is that something you see as well?

Nick:
Yeah, so actually in chapter 10 of the book, I kind of look through the mobility data. So if you start in this level, what percentage of people that start in let’s say level three, make it to level four over a 10 year period or a 20 year period? And in that chapter, the two levels that are the hardest to break out of are level three and level four. Level four is actually harder over a longer period of time. So let’s just use over a 20 year period. If you start in level three, roughly 62% of households will still be in level three 20 years later. But for those that start in level four, it’s 64%. So that is the highest number in the little matrix here that’s on page 1 54.

Dave:
So going from a million to 10 million is harder than going from a hundred thousand to 1 million.

Nick:
Yeah, this is obviously based off historical data using following the same set of households over time within the United States, and this is going from 1984 to 2021. So we’re looking at all those changes overall. Every 20 year period, we can get in there. So there’s not a lot of data, I admit, but regardless, it is harder and we can explain. I mean, it’s just the amount’s bigger, it’s harder to get there. But I think one of the things to think about in level three, the difference between those that stayed in level three over let’s say a decade versus those that made it to level four, the biggest difference is their income. So I talk about income a lot and I know I’m kind of beating a dead horse with it, but it’s so true. The difference between the households that stayed in level three over a decade versus those that started in level three and made it to level four is their income and those that have a much higher income and that allows them to save and invest more.
And so I think the thing to focus on in level three obviously besides income is investing. And so whether you do that through real estate, whether you do that through a stock portfolio, retirement account, et cetera, it’s adding money and having that money grow over time. And that is by far, I think the most effective way to do this type of thing to get into level four, if you’re trying to go past level four, that’s a completely different conversation. And your 401k is not going to do it for you. And we can talk about why.

Dave:
I mean it sounds obvious, yeah, just increase your income, but are you saying that is a bigger variable than the returns on your portfolio, whether that’s in real estate or stocks?

Nick:
It really depends. So when you say the return, I mean, because obviously we can take this to an extreme. If you’re getting a hundred percent return a year, then it doesn’t matter what your income is, right? Of

Dave:
Course. But within a normal range, if you’re getting 7% versus 12% annualized returns or

Nick:
Whatever, and if you can get so 7% nominal, which is probably like let’s say a four to 5% reel versus getting 12% nominal, which is going to be like an eight or 9% reel, that does make a difference, especially over, you could have a much lower income and with that extra 4% more per year on a nominal basis, that is no joke. That is a serious amount of money. But the thing is, I don’t try to, okay, all you got to do is just get 4% more than the market average. That’s very difficult. All you got to do is beat the market. It’s a very difficult thing to do. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but to bank your strategy on that, there’s a little bit more luck involved in my opinion
Than just trying to raise your income. You can do some sort of work and create value and then get paid money for that value. That seems easier and more likely for most people than like, Hey, we need to assume that the price of these assets you’re buying go up or they generate enough income for you to have a higher return. Obviously no one knows the future. We go through another COVID scenario, we could all sorts of things happen outside of your control, which as much as I, trust me, I love investing, I love talking about it. I always assume like a market portfolio, like an index fund or just like a broad-based REIT as my way of thinking about investment returns because I don’t know what the market’s going to do, and so I just have to assume the average

Dave:
Return. Absolutely. Yeah, I think that’s a really wise way of thinking about this, and it is not a popular opinion in the real estate investing world. I think in our world, a lot of it’s like hustle, go maximize returns, get that extra deal, go figure it out, get creative, which is true in real estate. You could go from a 7% nominal return, you could get 25% nominal returns. If you’re flipping houses, you get 40% nominal returns. There is ways to do that, but it is super hard to forecast if those are going to exist well into the future. And my personal philosophy about real estate has always been just try and hit doubles. Don’t try and do something super crazy. I still work. I am past the point where I think a lot of real estate investors would stop working, but I just want to keep earning as much money as I can to just reinvesting into my real estate trying to hit doubles. And sometimes they turn into home runs and that’s amazing, but sometimes as long as you’re just sort of protecting the downside, especially in real estate, I think that’s relatively easy to do. If you buy well, you protect your downside and just keep investing, you’re going to do well. And I think that’s for me, always been this path. I haven’t put it in such a helpful framework like this, but it’s sort of the way I’ve been able to create a sustained momentum upward even market cycles and trends.

Nick:
And I think that’s what you have to do is you have to say, Hey, I’m just trying to be consistent and get a decent return and not try and beat the market go all out because it’s a double-edged sword. The types of behaviors you take to have a 40% return in a year are the same type of behaviors that are going to get you a negative 40% return in year. Of course. I mean, that’s still unlikely, but you get the point.

Dave:
Okay, cool. Now let’s talk about group four. This is I think a group most of us aspire to be in at some point with a million dollars in 10 million in net worth. You said that this is the hardest one to get out of. Do you have any idea why?

Nick:
Yeah, because in level four, which is as you said, one to 10 million, the strategy to get into level four is very different than the strategy to get out of level four. Level three and level four have more or less the same strategy. The only difference is one of ’em has a higher income. You could imagine someone has a decent job in the United States, maybe a blue collar job. Let’s say they’re making 80, 90 KA year, doing well, they’ll just take time, save, invest. They’ll get into level three right
Now, you take that same person and you put them in maybe a slightly more higher compensated role. Let’s say they’re a lawyer or a doctor or something. Now they’re more likely to get into level four. But once again, it’s the same thing. You go out into the society, you work, you collect a paycheck, you save, invest, right? That’s the same thing. I mean, obviously some lawyers and doctors can own their own practices and really kind of get beyond level four, but that’s kind of getting into my next point, which is the difference between those that get into level five, which is 10 million plus is some form of business ownership.
They
Actually own equity in a business, so they’re not just working for money, but they have their business which they own, and they kind of own some of the labor of the individuals in the business as well. And so that through the capitalist system and using, we’ll just call it entrepreneurship, they’re able to either have a higher income, which really kind of ramps them up through level four into level five, or they sell the business eventually and have a large liquidity event that creates that wealth. And so that’s why it’s different because getting into level four, I’m not saying it’s easy, but the strategy is pretty simple, right? It’s like have a decent income, save that income over time, invest it, and just kind of wait. So it’s like time savings, investing, and a decent income.

Dave:
So in level four though, I guess, yeah, you’re asking people to sort of shift their approach because you’ve gone, you’re going from this maximize your current income, you’re active income into becoming an entrepreneur. And I would imagine for a lot of folks, whether you’re working in tech, you’re a doctor, you’re a lawyer, that’s just outside of your comfort zone, whereas, I mean, again, I am framing a lot of this through the lens of a real estate investor. For our audience here, I wonder if real estate investing the way you’re framing it to me sounds like a potential solution to some of this because it is both an investment and entrepreneurship.

Nick:
It definitely is. I didn’t cover this as much in the book, but I think thinking about it this way, it can be, the only issue I have with real estate is because of the leverage. So it kind of makes, it can be riskier at times depending on how exactly, how leveraged you are, how many properties, the devil’s in the details here. So you have one property, okay, put 20% down on top of let’s say you have a primary residence or something that’s different than, okay, put 5% down or nothing down or something. You hear about people that can work out these deals, and I think it just fundamentally changes. Yeah, you do have a business now in some ways, and so it is possible, and especially with leverage, it makes it even more possible, but there’s also the risk of falling down the wealth, losing everything.
You hear about Dave Ramsey say he lost his whole real estate portfolio early on because he was a little too levered. He had debt, he had a lot of stuff that he now doesn’t recommend. But I think thinking through that is the key here. So yeah, I do really believe besides celebrities, athletes, entertainers, those people that have really, really high incomes, the only other way I know of getting into level five or beyond, which is 10 million plus is through some sort of business ownership where that business is paying you just an exorbitant income or you own the business and you just sell it one day for a lot of money.

Dave:
And is there any theme to what kind of businesses tend to work outside of real estate, or is it just any kind of business that winds up being successful?

Nick:
So I haven’t looked into this data in particular, but I know there’s a book coming out in the future called the Stealthy Wealthy or something, which is a play on, it’s like an extension of Millionaire Next Door. And a lot of these people are like beverage distributors. You’re the biggest beverage distributor in a certain area, or it’s not always the most glamorous businesses. It’s not like tech companies all the time, but there’s a variety of businesses where this can be done. And so people can do it in real estate, people can do it in blue collar things. You hear about, oh, I own a bunch of laundromats. That happens too all over the place. And so there’s different ways of doing this. I don’t necessarily think that it’s necessary to escape level five. That’s another thing I want to talk or escape level four. I apologize. I don’t think that’s necessary, but I’m saying if you want to, the tactics and the strategy are quite different. So just keep that in mind if you are thinking about that. I don’t think everyone wants to do that. I don’t think it’s necessary. I think you can be very, very happy in level four and just chill out. But unfortunately not a lot of people want to listen to that.

Dave:
I do want to talk to you about that more, Nick, because I feel like this idea that you need to make linear or even exponential progress through these levels is not necessarily what a lot of people want. And I want to dig into that, but we do have to take one more quick break. We’ll be right back. Welcome back to On The Market. I’m here with Nick Majuli. Where we left off was talking, Nick, you made a comment about whether some people might just want to stay in one of these levels, and I just as an analyst, always find it really interesting to dig into that data that talks about how at certain points getting wealthier has diminishing or almost even no value in terms of happiness or contentedness in your life. Did you look into that at all as you were researching this book?

Nick:
Yeah. So chapter 11 is the chapter called Does Money Buy Happiness? And the answer is a little complicated and I’ll just summarize the result and then we’ll talk about it. So if you’re poor, more money will buy happiness.
If
You’re happy, more money will buy happiness. But if you’re not poor and you’re not happy, more money won’t do a thing. So how I translate that to the wealth levels, I like that. If you’re in levels one or two, I do think more money can bring more happiness, period. If you’re in levels three or four and you’re not happy, money’s not your issue. I’m pretty convinced money is not the problem that needs to be solved. It’s something else in your life. It might be, oh, I don’t feel motivated, I don’t like my job. I mean, it’s not that things can be related to money, but it’s not money per se. But in general, people that are, if you’re really happy and just having a great time already and you found more money, you would be happier. But if you’re unsatisfied with your life and you think money is the solution, it is not the solution. It’s kind of a weird, it’s a bit ironic, right? It’s like if you’re already feeling great, it’s like, yeah, more money would actually make you happier,

Dave:
Yeah, scaling. But if

Nick:
You’re chasing it because you’re not feeling great, then it’s actually not your solution. So it’s very funny, but that’s what the data shows. Everyone’s probably heard that study from Kahneman and Deaton, which is like after $75,000 a year in income, there’s no more happiness. Well, they went back and looked at the measure again. There’s a guy named Killingsworth came and they reanalyzed all the data. And that’s actually not the correct conclusion from that original study. It’s that more money doesn’t prevent unhappiness. I know that’s a double negative. More money doesn’t prevent unhappiness beyond 70 5K, but basically it’s like after 70 5K, you can still be unhappy. It does prevent unhappiness below that. So going from 20 K to 50 K to 70 5K does actually prevent unhappiness. Beyond that, you can’t stop unhappiness basically. And so the new data was like, hey, the more income, we keep looking up further up the income spectrum, and they even looked into wealth as well.
And the more wealth or income people have, the happier they tend to be all else equal, assuming they’re happy. If they’re already happy, when they get more, they’re even happier. There are those unhappy people where they didn’t see that though. If you’re unhappy, it didn’t matter how much you had. So it’s a very interesting flip of the script there. And so that’s what I talk about. And so I’m like, Hey, if you’re in level three or four and you’re chasing money because you think that’s going to make you happier, that’s not the solution. If you happen to be in those levels and you happen to get more money, then great. But it’s really about your motivation around that is I think the more important thing.

Dave:
Yeah, I’ve obviously heard that study. A lot of people cite it and it makes total sense if you are just stressed about paying your bills and your life is wanting for convenience and flexibility because you’re just constantly working to make ends meet. I could imagine very easily, I’ve been there at points in my life where it makes you unhappy, it stinks, it’s not fun. But I guess when you reach a certain point, would it be fair to say basically at a certain point you just need to be a happy person and then if you happen to make money, you can scale that happiness, but it’s not going to be a solution for you. And I think that’s a really important lesson for our community. And really, I don’t know how much you follow the real estate investing education world, but there’s a lot out there about scale into a hundred doors or getting a thousand units.
And I honestly think it’s crazy. I think much more modest schools are probably better for the average person, or you’re going to be running a massive company and you’re going to be back to having no time or anything like that. And so I just hope everyone listening to the podcast takes what Nick is saying here to heart that, yeah, real estate investing can be an amazing tool for moving throughout these levels, but you don’t necessarily need to. And getting to level three or four is an accomplishment in itself, and for a lot of people it might just be enough to stay there. And that’s totally fine, especially if you’re a happy person, then you have it all.

Nick:
Yeah, I agree. I think a lot of this is, I talk about this in part three of the book, it’s like the kind of zoom out, talk about what is wealth really, what other types of wealth are there thinking through all these things. And one of the things that I argue is that the reason people chase money is not even for money and obviously for what it can buy and stuff, but it’s easy to measure. That’s the thing. You have a scorecard, you have something, can I have a tangible thing I can look at, I can pull out of the bank, do things with it. It’s much harder to measure your social wealth or your time wealth, how much free time do you have your health? Even I can get a lipid panel once a year. I can get my blood drawn, I can go do a VO two max test or something, but I can’t check it every day. I could check my bank balance. And so I think there’s something to that where, because it’s so easy to measure, people chase it so often, and I think that’s a big piece of what’s going on here and
Just, I think people need to realize that, especially those people like, oh, you make it. Oh, I want to get to this or that. That’s great. And that’s fine. If you really want to do it, you can. But there are trade-offs associated with that. And I dunno if that’s going to be your health. I dunno if that’s going to be your relationships. I dunno if that’s going to be your time. I wrote this blog post a long time ago called The Liabilities of Success, which is like, imagine, so I just write a blog post once a week. And so people ask me, why haven’t you started a YouTube? Why haven’t you started a podcast? Let’s say I start this podcast or I start a YouTube channel and I go, I have to get an editor. I have to film myself. I have to spend so much more work than I spend now just running my once a week blog post. Now let’s say it actually succeeds, so it does the thing that I’m hoping it to do, right? Oh my gosh, it’s doing exactly what I want. Well, guess what? Now I have to keep producing this content. I am now on this hamster wheel where I have to keep giving my fans what they want and all this and all that. I technically have that right now with my writing. But one blog post a week for me is relatively easy. I’ve been doing it for a long time. It’s not too hard to write a thousand words,
Compare that to a YouTube show or a podcast. There’s a lot more work that goes into that. At least for me, I’m not that experienced with that. So if I get what I want, which is the success, I am now trapping myself in this liability of this success. And it’s not like I can just sell it because, oh, the YouTube or the podcast can be based on me. It’s not a business. I can go sell to someone. Oh, hey, you can have my podcast. It doesn’t work like that. Or at least I haven’t heard of many podcasts where that’s worked out. So me thinking about that, it’s like, okay, you want to have a hundred doors, you want to have a thousand doors. Do you know what it’s like to have that? Do you realize what the demands on your time are going to be like? You’re going to have to run that business. You’re going to get that. Okay, let’s say you get there, you have that success now, but now you’re trapped with that level of success. And so you have to think about, is that what you really want in dealing with that? So only thing I push back a little bit on when we discuss these issues.

Dave:
I just want to circle back to what you said earlier just about the measurability of wealth. I think that’s super true. It’s easy to check in on, and one thing I think about a lot is just how there is no other quantifiable metric that societally we value. If people want to feel good about themselves in our society, for better or worse, they look at their wealth. And there are obviously other things that I believe are more important than wealth, but how do you quantify contentedness or wellbeing or a sense of purpose? It’s very difficult to quantify net worth, super easy to quantify. So there’s this saying in business that I always follow, it’s like what gets measured is what gets done. So you measure wealth, people pursue that because it’s something that they can benchmark against. It’s something that they can track and the other things that might actually make you have a better life just lack that measurability, and it probably leads to a lot of unhappiness or discontentedness in our society. People don’t know how else to evaluate themselves.

Nick:
Yeah, I also think it’s very school-based like, oh, I got a score of 80 on my test or 95 or a hundred. It’s numeric. It’s easy to jump through. Those hoops do well, trust me, I did all this stuff. I had straight A’s in high school. I was valedictorian. I did all this stuff over time, I know what that’s like. I’ve been down that road. I started to see myself going there and I said, Hey, this is not the way to do this. I’m trying to do less stuff now. As much as I have a job, I write the books and stuff, but I’m not trying to go all out and have a YouTube and a podcast and this and that. And I’ve seen people do that and it’s great. If they love it, that’s great. But I think for me it’s like I’m really trying to say more nos now than

Dave:
Yeses. One more question, Nick, and then we’ll let you get out of here. A lot of the ideas that you have in this book are geared towards younger people getting into college, getting out of college, starting to figure out chart their path through their career wealth building. Can you provide maybe some of the high level advice that you think our younger listeners should heed from your research and your thinking around this topic?

Nick:
Yeah, so I think the biggest thing in chapter two, I talk about the relationship between income and wealth and it’s the strongest relationship in all of personal finance. And so I know it’s very easy to be like, oh, just raise your income. I wish we all had a magic wand, and we can do that. That’s definitely not the case, but I think it is easier than people think if they are thinking about it over a multi-year period. If you’re like, okay, you have to raise your income in the next month or two, it’s very difficult. But if you think about a very long time period or a longer time period, it is doable and you have to just figure out, okay, what are the steps I need to take to start moving in that direction? Does that mean a side hustle? Does that mean getting different types of skills or an education or something?
And I don’t think everything just has to be, once again, I say education. Everyone probably just thinks college sales is a skill. Can you sell something? Can you sell me something right now? I think that’s a skill that’s also AI is not going to be able to automate a way. I don’t imagine a world where we’re buying houses from robot AI realtors. I really believe it’s going to be people there that are selling. People are going to be selling you most of your stuff. That’s just one example. There’s other types of skills out there. I use that one because it’s one that’s scales very well. You can sell one thing, you can go sell another thing, and eventually you make your way up the sales spectrum. And there’s really no limit on sales income in terms of you just have to sell more expensive items to people. And that’s how it works. But that’s an example of something where you got to really grind, learn the skillset, and you can do it, but it just takes time. And so what is a multi-year plan you can put together or start thinking about to start raising your income over the next few years?

Dave:
It’s great advice. And just to bring it back to real estate investing, I’ll just tell a little bit of my personal story here. In 20 14, 20 15, I had been working in tech, had a decent job and had gotten, I think I was seven units as a real estate investor. And I sort of had this decision point of should I go all in on real estate? It was a good time to be an investor in 2014, it was in Denver. It was a great place to be doing it. Ultimately, I decided not to. And instead I went back to graduate school and took two and a half, three years going to school at night, working a full-time job, managing my portfolio all at the same time because I decided I am a good real estate investor, but the parts that I’m good at, which is analyzing deals, looking at markets, that kind of stuff, I could still do not being a full-time investor.
And in fact, the thing that I needed most was just more money to put into the deals that I was already having an easy time finding. I just, like you said, Nick looked at it in a long-term perspective and said, the best thing I can do for my real estate career is actually to supercharge my W2 job. That actually worked out quite well for me. I got a graduate degree. My salary went up 50 or 70% when I finished graduate school, and that’s what really supercharged my investing, not me all of a sudden quitting my job and having more time to go look at deals. It was just having more money. I was more lendable. I was able to go and build my portfolio a lot more aggressively because I took that sort of long-term approach. So really appreciate all the research and stuff you’re talking about, Nick, and just kind of wanted to bring that back to real estate investors and how this could apply to you and your own portfolio as well. All right, Nick, thank you so much for being here. This was a lot of fun. Really enjoy talking to you. The new book is The Wealth Ladder. Where can people find it and where can they follow you?

Nick:
Everywhere books are sold, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, target, apple Books, you name it, we’re going to have it there and they can follow me and on Twitter at dollars in data on LinkedIn at Nick Majuli or Instagram at Nick Majuli. And by the way, I answer every dm, so if you send me a DM that’s not absolutely unhinged or crazy, I don’t think that’s going to be your listeners, but very rarely do I not answer a dm. I answer basically every dm. So

Dave:
I’m going to copy that from you. I also answer pretty much every dm, but I never say that publicly because sometimes they’re unhinged and that I don’t respond. They’re like you said, you answer every dm. I just need to add that caveat

Nick:
When I start talking. If someone accused me of I answering a DM and I find their dm, I will. I’m like, you said it. You called me out. I’m going to put your DM out here and let’s see why we wouldn’t answer it.

Dave:
So yeah, would anyone in the right mind answer this dm? So if you answer, ask a reasonable question, Nick will answer your dm, as will I. Thanks again, Nick.

Nick:
Yeah, thanks. Appreciate it.

Dave:
And thank you all so much for listening to this episode on the market. We’ll see you next time.

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Hoping to Retire Early? Here’s One Savings Account You Can’t Overlook.


Retiring early is a goal many people have. And with enough savings, it may just be possible. There’s a big problem with retiring early, though — health insurance, or a lack thereof.

Many people’s health coverage is tied to a job. If you retire early and don’t have a spouse’s plan to join, you may have to pay for health insurance on your own until you turn 65, at which point you’re generally eligible to sign up for coverage through Medicare.

Image source: Getty Images.

But depending on how early you retire, that could translate into multiple years of paying health insurance premiums out of pocket. It could also mean bearing hefty out-of-pocket costs for not having a stellar plan.

That’s why it’s important to consider funding a health savings account, or HSA, if early retirement is on your radar. Having funds in an HSA is a great way to preserve your primary savings if you’re paying for healthcare and don’t want to raid your nest egg extensively.

What’s an HSA?

If you’re not familiar with HSAs, think of them as hybrid savings and investment accounts you can use to cover healthcare expenses — both in the near term and the long term.

It’s easy to confuse HSAs with FSAs, or flexible spending accounts. But a key difference is that HSA funds never expire, which means you can contribute to one of these accounts during your 20s and 30s and then use the money in your 50s and 60s (or later).

In fact, HSAs actually encourage you not to use up your plan balance year after year. That’s because unused money can be invested so it grows into a larger sum.

HSAs are also very useful because they offer three distinct tax breaks:

  • Contributions go in on a pre-tax basis.
  • Investment gains are tax-free.
  • Withdrawals used for qualifying healthcare expenses are tax-free.

However, HSAs aren’t available to everyone. You’ll need to see if your health insurance plan meets the requirements, which change yearly. People who are enrolled in a high-deductible health insurance plan often qualify.

Why an HSA is key when you’re planning to retire early

The cost of having to pay for health insurance may be more than you’ve bargained for. And without an HSA, it may be an impediment to early retirement.

Let’s say you’re aiming to retire at age 59 1/2, which is when you can tap your IRA or 401(k) plan without a penalty. Even if you have a large balance in one of these accounts, you’re a good five and a half years away from being able to get health coverage through Medicare. And you’ll need insurance during that time.

You can’t necessarily use an HSA to pay insurance premiums (though you can use HSA funds for COBRA premiums if you’re looking to retain your employer health coverage for a limited period of time). But you can use an HSA to cover the out-of-pocket costs that may come with one of the less expensive health insurance plans you can buy on your own.

Let’s say you opt for a health insurance plan with lower premiums but significant out-of-pocket costs as a result. Your HSA could come to your rescue by giving you a pool of money to dip into to cover your copays and deductibles.

One of the biggest barriers to early retirement is the need for health insurance. So if that’s something you’re planning for, it pays to see if you qualify for an HSA, and to consider maxing out your contributions.

A Labor Day Salute to You — the American Worker


BigPixel Photo / Shutterstock.com

Unlike virtually every other holiday our nation celebrates, Labor Day isn’t about any single American, religious event or group of heroes. Labor Day is about all of us. It’s a celebration of, for and by the people who made America the most prosperous nation on Earth: American workers and the families who support them. We’ve got a lot to be proud of. Here is a brief history of how the holiday…

The Curious Math Behind Robinhood’s 3% IRA Match and the Backdoor Roth


Robinhood offers a 3% contribution match on all IRA contributions (Roth or traditional) for their Robinhood Gold members. They also often run a promo to give a 2% match for IRA account transfers from an outside institution into Robinhood. You need to pay for Robinhood Gold membership for one full year after making the transfer or contribution in order to be eligible for the full 3%/2% bonus. And you need to leave the funds there with Robinhood for five years.

Tax Treatment of the Bonus

In the financial enthusiast community, it’s been pointed out an interesting tax and retirement benefit to the Robinhood match bonus.

See, instead of running the match like a separate account bonus which goes to your Cash account, the Robinhood match bonus goes directly into your IRA and is treated like a gain from your IRA account. This gets us two distinct advantages:

  • Tax treatment: the bonus gets the same tax advantage as the IRA itself. If it’s a Roth IRA, that means you’ll never pay taxes on the match bonus at all. That’s a significant boost to the bonus when comparing against regular bank/brokerage bonuses. If it’s a traditional IRA, you’ll pay taxes when you break the IRA in retirement, but you still get the benefit of the delayed taxation which lets the funds grow more. (That’s always the benefit of the traditional IRA.)
  • Retirement limits: while we are limited to $7,000 in annual IRA contributions (for 2025), the match bonus goes on top of that number since it’s treated like a subsequent gain in your retirement account, not an initial contribution.

WeBull 

WeBull appears to treat IRA match bonus and transfer bonus similar to Robinhood with the bonus acting like a gain of the IRA account and thus conferring the tax benefits of the account.

There are likely other brokerages offering this as well – Robinhood and WeBull have been running the most competitive offers for IRA contributions and transfers. Feel free to comment below if you verified how it works for an IRA bonus with another brokerage. (Update: Judging from the comments below, it appears this is how it usually works for bonuses attached to IRA accounts with other brokerages as well.)

Update: An interesting twist regarding WeBull: apparently, there’s a setting you can modify on the ‘My Rewards’ page settings and prioritize the Roth account so that all bonuses land there.

Backdoor Roth Twist

For those who contribute to a backdoor Roth (those with higher incomes who are excluded from contributing directly to a Roth IRA), it gets more interesting: If you contribute directly to a Roth IRA at Robinhood, the 3% match also goes directly into the Roth. But if you’re using the backdoor Roth strategy, the Robinhood bonus goes to the traditional IRA account since the initial contribution to Robinhood went there. Let’s assume a $7,000 (2025) contribution into the traditional IRA and a bonus match of $210. Now there’s $7,210 in your Robinhood traditional IRA. 

Now, you’ll convert the funds into a Roth IRA. The cleanest way to do so is to transfer the entire $7,210 into the Roth. Since this is a conversion (remember, the $210 is treated like gains from the traditional IRA), you’ll pay regular income taxes on the $210. And so you won’t get the same tax-free benefit that you would get with a direct Roth contribution. But you’ll still get the other above-mentioned benefit of stuffing “higher than the annual limit” into your IRA. 

There does not seem to be any problem, from a bonus perspective, with doing the backdoor Roth – though you converted the funds from tradition to Roth, Robinhood seems to be good with your “keeping the funds for 5 years” clause, so long as you leave it with them for 5 years.

Contribution 3% vs Transfer 2%

An interesting math problem is someone who is considering doing an IRA transfer bonus and subsequent contribution. Are they better off doing the contribution to their old brokerage and then transferring into Robinhood with a 2% transfer bonus? Or should they transfer the existing IRA funds, then do their backdoor Roth contribution into Robinhood to get the higher 3% bonus? 

Simply speaking it would depend if your marginal tax bracket is higher than 33%. It’s slightly more complex, but this should be an easy rule of thumb: assuming you pay less than 33% taxes, it’s technically better to do the contribution after doing the transfer and getting the higher 3% bonus. 

Note: many states allow the same benefits for IRAs that the federal taxation law allows. And so, when evaluating your marginal tax bracket, you can add together your federal and state tax brackets to see if it adds up to 33%. (In states which do not allow IRA deductions the math will be different.)

Suggestion to Robinhood

In case the folks at Robinhood are DoC readers , kindly tweak the system so that – for backdoor Roths – we can choose which account gets the bonus. That way we can sidestep the whole issue and have the match bonus go directly into the Roth IRA. 

5-Year Lock Rule

On a related note, here’s something I’ve verified with Robinhood support. When doing your annual IRA contribution for the 3% contribution match, the 5-year lock has a rolling timeframe. And so let’s say you make a $7,000 IRA contribution each year for the next 10 years (2025-2034) and your account now has exactly $70,000 (for simplicity, let’s assume no growth). In 2035, you transfer $35,000 out of Robinhood to another brokerage. Robinhood will look at the $35,000 transfer as if the earlier contributions were transferred (2025-2029). Thus, you will not lose your bonus so long as you always leave the most recent five years of contributions in the account. 

The Brain Science Behind Successful Marketing


Catch the Full Episode:

 

Overview

On this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, John Jantsch interviews Michael Aaron Flicker, founder and CEO of ZenoSci Ventures and co-founder (with Richard Shotton) of the Consumer Behavior Lab. Michael shares insights from their new book, “Hacking the Human Mind: The Behavioral Science Secrets Behind 17 of the World’s Best Brands.” They discuss how the world’s top brands—sometimes knowingly, sometimes not—leverage deep principles of behavioral science to drive memorable marketing, build loyalty, and create legendary campaigns.

About the Guest

Michael Aaron Flicker is the founder and CEO of ZenoSci Ventures and co-founder of the Consumer Behavior Lab, an organization dedicated to applying the science of human behavior to media and marketing. Alongside renowned behavioral scientist Richard Shotton, Michael explores how behavioral science can be practically applied to build more effective brands, campaigns, and customer journeys.

Actionable Insights

  • Great brands often leverage behavioral science—even if they’re not aware of the academic research behind their strategies.
  • Marketers should focus on concrete, image-rich messaging (e.g., “a thousand songs in your pocket”) rather than abstract claims or feature lists; concrete language is proven to be more memorable and persuasive.
  • Specificity and the illusion of effort (e.g., “17 brands,” “5,127 prototypes”) increase credibility and audience trust.
  • Creating peak moments—unexpected, memorable experiences—can dramatically elevate brand loyalty (e.g., a popsicle hotline at an average hotel).
  • Behavioral science helps decode why people really buy; understanding these principles arms you to design smarter campaigns and better experiences.
  • Marketers must use these tactics ethically; understanding human shortcuts is about guiding, not manipulating, decisions.
  • The best way to apply these principles is to test them: run A/B tests, observe outcomes, and iterate—even small businesses can experiment and learn.
  • Success comes from a mindset open to science, measurement, and continuous observation—move beyond gut instinct to evidence-based marketing.

Great Moments (with Timestamps)

  • 00:55 – What Does It Mean to “Hack the Human Mind”?
    Why the book starts with brands, not academic studies, and always ends with “so what?”
  • 02:00 – Ground-Level Psychology
    Why both big brands and small business owners have direct insight into consumer behavior.
  • 03:20 – Debunking the Feature Stack
    The Five Guys story: Why less is more, and focus beats feature overload.
  • 06:53 – The Power of Concrete Messaging
    How Apple’s “a thousand songs in your pocket” leverages proven behavioral science.
  • 09:21 – Why “17 Brands”?
    Specificity and the illusion of effort make numbers more credible and memorable.
  • 11:00 – The Peak-End Rule and Creating Brand Moments
    Why a popsicle hotline at an average motel generates top-tier reviews.
  • 13:32 – How Any Business Can Create Peak Moments
    Small, intentional actions can create powerful, memorable experiences for any brand.
  • 15:10 – Ethics and the “Dark Side” of Behavioral Science
    Why marketers must use these insights responsibly and educate consumers.
  • 17:20 – How to Get Started in Behavioral Science Marketing
    Adopt a science-based, test-and-learn mindset—not just gut instinct.
  • 18:52 – Measurement and Testing
    Why even small businesses should observe, experiment, and iterate.

Insights

“Great brands use behavioral science principles—sometimes knowingly, sometimes by instinct—to create memorable, effective marketing.”

“Concrete, image-rich language is four times more memorable than abstract claims. Show, don’t just tell.”

“Specificity and visible effort—like a precise number of prototypes—build trust and credibility.”

“A single, unexpected peak moment can make an average experience legendary in the minds of customers.”

“Behavioral science is about understanding humanity’s natural shortcuts and designing better, not more manipulative, marketing.”

Consumer Behavior, Michael Aaron Flicker

Digital Mortgage Conference 2025 and through the years


Enjoy complimentary access to top ideas and insights — selected by our editors.

National Mortgage News will be celebrating a decade of DigMo, with the 10th annual Digital Mortgage Conference set for Sept. 16 through 17. The conference returns to San Diego, but for the first time it will be held at the Loews Coronado Bay Resort.  

This year’s keynote speakers are Joel Kan, the deputy chief economist of the Mortgage Bankers Association, and Andy Taylor, the co-founder and CEO of Retrorate.

REGISTER NOW

Among the sessions includes a Top Producers Super Panel featuring Phil Crescenzo of Nations One Mortgage, Shawn Malkou of X2 Mortgage and Jake Vermillion, the chief marketing officer of Mortgage Champions.

As always, DigMo is featuring its annual demo challenge.

Other speakers include a number of compliance experts, as well as from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, plus Zillow, Rocket, Rate, Guild, Better, Loandepot, Pennymac, CMG, New American and Atlantic Bay, among others.

Speakers at past conferences included some of the early movers and shakers in tech-focused lending. But several ended up among the most controversial names in mortgages.

Here’s a look back at some highlights from the DigMos of years past, both live and virtual.



My Biggest Roth IRA Mistake I Made



DON’T MAKE THIS COMMON MISTAKE‼️

Many people mistakenly believe that simply opening a Roth IRA will ensure their money grows. The key to growth is actually investing in assets. It’s essential to research your investments carefully. I prefer S&P 500 ETFs for their solid long-term potential.

If you max out your Roth IRA annually for 40 years, you could end up with around $3M based on average market returns 😱. But if you don’t invest your contributions, you’ll only accumulate about $280K.

Remember, every small financial decision and investment you make brings you closer to your wealth-building goals. Stay disciplined, keep investing wisely, and watch your financial security grow! 💸📈
-Steve

Follow @calltoleap for investing videos!

Follow me @calltoleap to learn more things like this about money!

@calltoleap

@calltoleap

@calltoleap

Make sure you check out my next beginners investing master class on September 3rd 5:30 PM PST. The link to sign up is in my bio! 🔥

Have you opened up your Roth IRA? Let me know in the comments below! 👇

#money #investing #finance #personalfinance

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Amazon Shop with Points, Save Up to $30 with Discover Cashback- Danny the Deal Guru


Amazon Discover Discount

This article contains Amazon affiliate links.

Amazon has brought back a popular promotion for Discover cardholders. You can get a $10 off  your next Amazon purchase of $75 or more, or 40% off up to maximum discount of $30 when using a Discover Cashback for at least part of your purchase. But offers may often vary from one account to the other.

You can use as little as 1 cent from your Discover card’s cashback and you will get the discount, as long as you purchase products sold by Amazon.com. Check out the details of this Amazon Discover promo below.

How It Works

This is a targeted promotion so not everyone will qualify. But if you have Discover Cashback and are eligible, make sure you activate the promotion and use it before the expiration date. Do this sooner than later, because there’s a limit on total redemptions.

  • Visit promotion page to see if you are eligible
  • Click on the “Activate promotion” button to activate your promotion and apply your Cashback Bonus to your next order.
  • Add eligible products sold and shipped by Amazon.com to your shopping cart.
  • Your Cashback Bonus will be temporarily set as your payment method at checkout. To redeem this offer, you must pay for at least a portion of your order with Cashback Bonus.

PROMO PAGE

Some of the offers that you might see include:

  • 40% off, up to $50 in savings.
  • 40% off, up to $30 in savings.
  • 30% off, up to $15 in savings.
  • $30 off purchases of $80 or more.
  • $10 off purchases of $50 or more.
  • $10 off purchases of $75 or more.

Offer Terms

  • This is a limited-time offer. The promotion will end on the earlier of (a) 12:00 PM PT on 9/19/2025.
  • Amazon.com reserves the right to cancel or modify this offer at any time.
  • Offer is available by invitation only.
  • Offer only applies to products shipped and sold by Amazon.com.
  • Shipping charges may apply to discounted promotional items.

Amazon Discover Promo: Guru’s Wrap-up

This is an easy Amazon discount for Discover cardholders. Just visit the promotion page to see if you are eligible. If you are, then make sure you activate the promotion before making a purchase.

These promotions only works on items that sold and shipped by Amazon. To see only items sold and shipped by Amazon, search for whatever you’re looking to buy and then add &emi=ATVPDKIKX0DER to the end of the URL. The discount should work for third party gift cards sold on Amazon as well.

Let me know if this Amazon Shop with Points promo works for you. And remember to always leave some cashback in your Discover account, even if it’s just a few cents. They can be useful when these promotions come around.

More Discounts

Here’s a list of some of the current deals and discounts for Amazon purchases (affiliate links below):

Expired:

Amazon offers free shipping on orders of $25 or more. If you’re a Prime member, then you can also get free 1-day shipping on most items that are sold directly by Amazon. You can save on a Prime membership if you are a student, or an EBT/Medicaid cardholder. You can also just sign up for an Amazon Prime 30-Day Free Trial.

 
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases made through this article. While your support is always greatly appreciated, you should always check shopping portals such as Rakuten, TopCashback, RebatesMe, ShopBack and others for possible cashback.

The S&P 500 officially notches a new record over 6,500—but investors shouldn’t get too giddy



A few weeks ago as the S&P 500 hit a new record, this reporter noted that the index virtually hit a landmark reading, a price to earnings ratio of 30. I actually cheated a bit, as I pointed out in the piece: The actual figure was around 29.85, close enough that I rounded it to 30. The point then was, this is a big, big number that you seldom see mentioned by Wall Street analysts or pundits, who’d rather cite a lower, more marketable multiple based on “next year’s” (always over-estimated) profits or “operating earnings” that exclude real charges as basic as interest expense.

But now it’s in the record books: At 2:35 PM on August 28, the S&P hit another fresh summit at 6501, and the real, not-rounded-up PE hit 30. That ratio’s based on what matters most, GAAP earnings posted over the last four quarters, profits that really happened as opposed to usually over-rosy predictions. The only span in recent decades when big cap stocks have been this expensive: Ten quarters during the tech frenzy that stretched from Q4 of 1999 to Q1 of 2022. (The PE also briefly exceeded 30 during the pandemic and following the GFC, but only because earnings collapsed, sinking the denominator and skewing the multiple artificially low.)

As I noted, on the macro scene, the danger signs are multiplying. The latest employment report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics disclosed that the U.S. added a meager 73,000 jobs in July, and revised the May and June figures radically downward, bringing total net hires for the past three months to just 106,000, less than one fourth the increase for the same period last year. Heather Long, chief economist at Navy Federal Credit Union, described the feeble data as a “game changer” demonstrating that “the labor market is deteriorating quickly.”

GDP growth has also proved disappointing, clocking far below the Trump administration’s highly aspirational target of 3%. The economy expanded at an annualized clip of just 1.75% through the first half of 2025, way down from the 2.7% average in Q3 and Q4 of last year. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) is forecasting tepid expansion of 1.7% to 1.8% from 2026 to 2035, not nearly fast enough to shrink the federal debt that the agency projects will swell from 100% of national income this year to 110% by 2031.

So what does that mean for investors now? A 30 PE means you’re getting only $3 in earnings for every $100 you pay for S&P stocks. As recently as late 2022, you were getting $5 for every $100 invested. And the jump in stock prices didn’t occur because earnings soared. Since then, they’ve barely matched inflation. No, the huge ramp in recent years came strictly because PEs jumped, making stocks more and more expensive. That doesn’t mean stocks will crash tomorrow, or next week or next month. But history has proved time and time again that when valuations rise this far into the stratosphere, they are bound to come back to earth eventually.

Introducing the 2025 Fortune Global 500, the definitive ranking of the biggest companies in the world. Explore this year’s list.

How Does A College Admissions Waitlist Work?


Being placed on a college admissions waitlist can create a mixed bag of emotions for applicants. On one hand, it isn’t an outright rejection, but on the other, it can feel as though you’re being left on the sidelines.

After all the effort you’ve put into essays, interviews, and extracurriculars, being placed on a waitlist can be discouraging and frustrating. But understanding how a waitlist actually functions—and more importantly, what your odds of getting in might be—can help ease some of that uncertainty and inform your next steps.

In this article, we’ll dig into how the college waitlist process works, factors that influence acceptance from a waitlist, and what you can do to improve your chances. We’ll also look at real data from UC Berkeley’s 2022 admissions cycle to give you a sense of how waitlist odds play out in reality.

What Is A Waitlist And Why Do Colleges Use It?

Each year, college admissions teams face the unpredictable exercise of identifying exactly how many of the students they admit will actually enroll. This is known as the “yield rate,” and it’s a critical metric for colleges who consistently look to fill their incoming classes without overshooting or leaving seats empty. To manage this, admissions teams sometimes turn to offering certain qualified applicants a spot on their waitlist. Over the next few months, a portion of admitted students will decline their offers. This means enrollment spots open up and waitlisted students can get a chance at admission.

Each college uses their waitlist differently. However, waitlists are typically created in the spring (after March or April), after initial acceptance letters have been sent out. Once waitlisted students receive their official admissions decision, they’re often asked whether they’d like to remain on the waitlist. If you’re on the waitlist, you’re typically required to confirm your interest by filling out a form or sending a letter to the admissions office. This signals your ongoing commitment to the school, which can be a factor if spots open up.

Odds Of Being Accepted From A Waitlist

The question of the hour is this: What are the odds of actually getting in if I’m waitlisted?

Unfortunately, waitlist odds are generally low, particularly at highly selective schools. According to data from the National Association for College Admission Counseling (NACAC), highly selective colleges tend to have waitlist acceptance rates below 10%, while more moderately selective schools may have rates hovering around 20%. In most cases, students should approach a waitlist offer with cautious optimism—it’s an opportunity, but one with no guarantees.

UC Berkeley Example: Waitlist Statistics

To understand how this process plays out, let’s look at a real-world example. In 2022, UC Berkeley, one of the most competitive schools in the University of California school system, offered 7,001 qualified applicants a place on its waitlist. Out of those, 4,820 students decided to accept the offer and remain on the waitlist. In the end, 1,191 of those who were originally waitlisted were admitted.

This means about 17% of the students waitlisted at UC Berkeley ultimately gained admission. While this might sound promising, remember that Berkeley is a large public university with higher enrollment needs. Many private, highly selective institutions admit far fewer students from their waitlists each year—sometimes it’s fewer than 5% or none at all.

Factors That Affect Waitlist Acceptance Rates

Each college’s approach to managing its waitlist is unique, but a few common factors can influence whether a waitlisted student ultimately gains admission:

  • Yield Rates: If a college’s yield rate—the percentage of admitted students who enroll—is lower than anticipated, they may need to admit more students from the waitlist. For example, if a significant number of students decline their offer of admission in favor of other schools, more spots open up for waitlisted students. Schools with unpredictable or low yield rates are more likely to lean on their waitlists to fill classes.
  • Demonstrated Interest: Some schools consider a student’s ongoing interest in attending when determining who to admit from the waitlist. By sending a letter of continued interest, updating the admissions office on recent achievements, or even just filling out a confirmation form promptly, you can show that you’re committed to attending if accepted. In competitive admissions environments, this level of demonstrated interest can make a difference.
  • Class Composition Goals: Admissions teams strive to create a balanced and diverse incoming class, not only in terms of demographics but also in terms of academic interests, geographic distribution, and extracurricular talents. If the initial admitted pool is short on a particular type of student—say, musicians or applicants from a certain state—a college may look to the waitlist for candidates who fit that profile.
  • Institutional Priorities: Each college has specific goals and strategic priorities that influence admissions decisions. For example, a college expanding its computer science department may give waitlist preference to students with strong interest in STEM. Similarly, a college that values geographical diversity might prioritize out-of-state or international students from the waitlist if enrollment from those groups is lower than expected.

The Emotional Reality Of Being Waitlisted

Getting waitlisted is an emotional experience. It can feel like you’re stuck in a state of limbo, waiting on a response that could alter your future. However, being waitlisted isn’t necessarily a reflection of your skills and qualifications. In many cases, it’s simply a matter of space. Keep in mind that admissions teams regularly report having far more qualified applicants than they have spots available for.

Steps To Take If You’re Waitlisted

If you’re on a waitlist, it’s important to stay proactive while managing expectations. Here are some steps you can take to maximize your chances of being admitted:

  • Confirm Your Interest: Most schools ask students on the waitlist to confirm whether they’re still interested in attending. Make sure to complete this process as soon as possible, as this can signal your eagerness to enroll.
  • Write a Letter of Continued Interest: A letter of continued interest, sometimes called a LOCI, can help bolster your case. Your letter should be concise but genuine. Use it to reiterate your interest in the school, explain why it’s a top choice for you, and update the admissions team on any significant accomplishments since you submitted your application, such as awards, grades, or new extracurricular involvement.
  • Update with Relevant Information: If you have new SAT/ACT scores, a recent achievement, or additional academic updates, consider sending them to the admissions office. Some schools welcome updates, while others don’t; it’s a good idea to check the school’s policy to avoid overstepping.
  • Accept an Offer Elsewhere: Since a waitlist offer doesn’t guarantee admission, it’s wise to secure your place at another college by their deposit deadline. This way, you’ll have a guaranteed spot for the fall, and you won’t feel pressured if the waitlist offer doesn’t materialize.

Should You Appeal Your Waitlist Status?

In some cases, applicants might wonder if they should reach out to appeal their waitlist status. However, it’s generally not recommended. Admissions teams are accustomed to receiving additional information from waitlisted students, and contacting them repeatedly could be perceived negatively. The best approach is to follow their guidelines, provide any requested updates, and let your application speak for itself.

Final Thoughts on Waitlist Strategies

While being waitlisted is often disappointing, it’s important to remember that many students do get admitted from a waitlist. Also try to consider the bigger picture of why waitlists exist, then focus on what you can do to set yourself up for future success. Staying focused on presenting yourself as a committed, well-qualified candidate will speak for itself.

Ultimately, college is just one chapter in your educational journey. Whether or not you gain admission from a waitlist, your college experience—and your potential for success—isn’t limited by one decision. Embrace your options, make the most of the college experience that welcomes you, and remember that no matter where you go, it’s your passion, resilience, and curiosity that will carry you forward.

Editor: Colin Graves

Reviewed by: Robert Farrington

The post How Does A College Admissions Waitlist Work? appeared first on The College Investor.