Dave:
Before real estate, Eric Augustin had the same fear that keeps us all up at night. What happens if I get fired? He had just survived the 2008 financial crisis, and luckily he still had a job, but he knew it wasn’t a guaranteed path to financial freedom. If he wanted to control his own destiny, he needed to do something different. He needed real estate. And even though everyone told him that buying rentals in that market was a mistake, he did it anyway. Eric saved up 20% down, bought one of the cheapest properties he could find, and spent nights fixing up the property after 12 hour corporate work days. After that first deal, he was hooked. He hired a property manager, he joined the BiggerPockets community in 2017, and 16 years later, that nervous newbie investor has an expansive portfolio of single family rentals and small multifamilies across multiple states.
This journey and his experience in the corporate world is why Eric is BiggerPockets’ new CEO. Today on the show, we’ll go in depth on Eric’s own rental property portfolio and the lessons he’s learned along the way. And then Eric is going to reveal what the team at BiggerPockets is building to make your real estate investing journey much easier than his own.
What’s up everyone? I’m Dave Meyer, chief investment officer at BiggerPockets. And today we’ve got a super special episode for you. I am joined today by Eric Augustin, who is a member of the BiggerPockets community, longtime real estate investor, and now the new CEO of BiggerPockets. Eric and I got together and recorded this show last week at BPCon in Orlando, and I can’t wait for you to hear about his story and his vision for the next chapter of BiggerPockets. Let’s bring him on. Eric, welcome to the BiggerPockets Podcast. It’s so fun to be here with you.

Eric:
Yeah, Dave, thanks so much for having me. It’s actually really funny to be across from you because usually I’m at the gym listening to you, but now I’m across

Dave:
From you. Well, this is going to be a fun episode. Eric is the new CEO of BiggerPockets, so really interested to hear about what the vision is for BiggerPockets and for you to share that with the audience. But you are also a real estate investor yourself. So tell us a little bit about how you got started.

Eric:
Yeah, absolutely. So I started in 2010 and my story kind of is two different tales. One is a W2 path that I took and another one is what I would say kind of the path to financial freedom or what BiggerPockets offers. So my W2, I started out as a mechanical engineer. I went into finance at Goldman Sachs. I was on the operational side of that. And after the financial crisis, I moved out to Salt Lake City to help build out that office. Now, like a lot of people in the W2 world, sometimes the amount you put into work, the compensation expectation doesn’t come out of that. And Goldman Sachs is a fantastic company. If anybody has a chance to work there, absolutely take it. They’re wonderful. The people there are wonderful. But after 08, it was really anyone’s game on what was going to happen.
So my expectation was slightly different. And I said, okay, well, what I realized at that moment was if I really wanted to be financially independent and not be in a situation where a crisis or a company could dictate what my financial status would look like, I needed an alternative path. And at the time I chose real estate. And the funny part is we’ve talked about this. The funny part is if you chose real estate in 2010, you looked crazy.

Dave:
You were a psychopath.

Eric:
Absolute psycho. People like, “What are you doing?” Literally people blamed real estate for bringing down the retirement, the economy, everything. So in 2010, I bought my first town home. It was in Magna, Utah. I bought a foreclosure. It was on the market probably for two years, and I bought it really not knowing anything about real estate.

Dave:
Why did you pick real estate? If it was so crazy to do it in 2010 and you were looking for stability outside of your W2, what about real estate attracted you?

Eric:
I was living in New York City at the time, and when you live in New York in your early 20s, purchasing a home isn’t even really a factor. You just don’t think about it. You’re going to rent and maybe rent into your 30s, and that’s just natural. And I’d say it’s the same today. I went out to Salt Lake City, Utah, and I looked at how beautiful, one, that city is. And then two, I said, wait a second, I can buy a home for, at the time, a town home was anywhere between 55 to 150K for interconnected town home. I said, oh my gosh, that’s unbelievable. That’s achievable.

Dave:
Yeah. I think there is something just tangible about real estate that even though everyone was saying it was crazy and there’s no bottom to this market, but just seeing, hey, I can live here for X. If I pay this off over 30 years, it’s going to net me a nest egg. There’s just something that makes sense about that regardless of what’s going on in the big macroeconomic environment.

Eric:
Yeah. So obviously I work for a capital markets firm and you can own a security, so I can own five shares of Apple. Does that mean I can walk through the front door at Apple? Does that mean I can share my opinion? Does that mean I can make decisions with that company? Yes, I can vote, I guess, but not really. When you own a piece of real estate, it’s a business. I have to make decisions on this asset every day and all day. Someone’s living in this asset, which I actually like. I think providing a home is just an essential human thing, and I hope more people can invest and also be within real estate. So yeah, there’s something really special about it.

Dave:
Tell us about your first deal. You come to Salt Lake, you’re kind of new there, you’re seeing all these houses. How’d you go about identifying what kind of property you wanted to buy and which strategy you were going to use?

Eric:
I found a investor-friendly agent at the time. Kate Splan was her name, and I think she lives in Park City now, but I must have been such a headache for her, by the way. Looking back, I knew nothing what I was doing, and I just went to the least expensive areas. And at the time, town homes really took a hit. Condos took a hit. Usually in a crash, those take a hit a little bit more than an SFR or just a regular single family. So I went there and I bid on a place, got it for 55K, and I was off to the races. And I was working about a 12-hour day. And then nights and weekends, I was doing the repairs myself using YouTube. If I really got into trouble, I called my father for help.

Dave:
He’d walk you through it.

Eric:
Yeah. He’d say, test this, try this. The electrical was a real pain because some of it had been stripped out.

Dave:
So how’d the first deal turn out? You bought it, you did the renovations. Did you like it? What happened?

Eric:
So I was scared every weekend thinking if I don’t get this fixed in time, if I don’t get it rented, I’m so stretched thin that I’m going to be in trouble. So I kept pushing, I kept working weekends and doing it, and then I had to rent it out. And I will say this, I am not a property manager. I learned that very quickly. And it’s kind of interesting because my property manager now of 16 years almost noticed that by the way I was listing things.

Dave:
You’re not good at this.

Eric:
I’m not good at this. I’m not good at

Dave:
This. Me neither.

Eric:
Part of it was, I remember one of our first renters, it was a single mother. She had lost her husband in Iraq and she worked for Verizon Wireless at the time. And I remember she was late on her first month and I said to myself, I’m like, oh man.

Dave:
This is your first tenant, late on the first month? My

Eric:
First tenant late on the first month.

Dave:
That’s scary.

Eric:
And I said, “Oh man, I’m so lucky. I have a job.” After 08, you were just so happy you had a job. And I’m like, “I have a job. I’ll make it through. I’m still young. I have no liabilities. I have no children. I’ll be fine.” So I said, “Don’t worry about it.” And then I’m sure she was a great lady. Next month, “Hey, a little bit behind. Let me pay you this. Let me pay you that.” And actually somebody cold called me and said, “Hey, notice your listing. We noticed you’re purchasing property here. Would you be interested in us being your property manager?” So I went out to coffee, had a coffee, told them the story, and they’re like, “I think we need to take this over for you. I appreciate you trying to be a good guy, but I think we need to take this over for you.”

Dave:
Wow. So you went to third party management almost immediately within two months or whatever that was?

Eric:
Yeah, within about two months.

Dave:
All right. How’d you feel about that decision?

Eric:
I’m a huge fan of third party management. I’m a huge fan. And if you take a look at the amount of time DIY has to put in, I don’t think it’s worth it. And I actually did renovations on about 10 homes myself until I realized too, that’s probably not worth my time either. And my time is probably worth securing deals, forming a network, expanding to different states, more of the scale part of the operation. But I will say, I think everyone should do a piece of maintenance themselves because you need to know what things cost and how long they take to get done or you will be ripped off. And everything will be more than you think it is always.

Dave:
Especially now.

Eric:
Yes. All

Dave:
Right. So you did this first deal, you offload it. Is that sort of what gave you the confidence to do another one? Because it sounds like you’re kind of struggling with the first one and offloading it maybe allowed you to think less about the day-to-day and more about sort of the big picture strategy.

Eric:
So I did the math and I did what I think most people do is, okay, if I get to 10 doors and 400 a month, that’ll be 4,000 a month and maybe then I don’t have to work or I don’t have to be fearful of losing my job. And you do the door count math in your head. So I set out to get 10 doors and that’s kind of what started.

Dave:
And how’d that go? You get to 10 doors?

Eric:
I did get to 10 doors, but one of the ways I got to 10 doors was actually house hacking.

Dave:
Okay. So you went back to it?

Eric:
I went back

Dave:
To it. Unusual route. I did the same thing actually, not my first deal, second deal, house hack.

Eric:
Yes. And I say, if I knew everything I know now, we’d be having this on a boat. We’d be good. We’d be somewhere in the Mediterranean. It would be amazing. But some people have unteachable lessons, right? They have to learn the hard way and I had to.

Dave:
How long did it take you to go into house hacking and what’d you buy?

Eric:
End of 2010, 2011 was the first property I bought. House hacking was around 2013.

Dave:
Okay. Yeah. And was it duplex, single family?

Eric:
Fourplex.

Dave:
Okay. Fourplex. Nice.

Eric:
So I met a loan officer at the time. His name was Mike Metzger, Bank of Utah. And he saw what I was doing and I was looking for any bank that would give me a loan. Loans were really tough,

Dave:
Super hard.

Eric:
They were tough to get back then. And so I came across Mike and Mike said, “Eric, can I make a suggestion? I think you might be doing this wrong.” I said, “Yeah, sure, Mike.” He said, “You need a house hack.” I said, “Well, what’s that?” And he’s like, “Well, basically you live in one and you rent out the others.” And I was like, “Was that even legal? If I take a loan, can I do that?” He’s like, “Yeah, absolutely. It was even better. Since you’re living there, it’s your primary, you can use FHA. And then you can refi out, assuming you put some value into it and it appraises, you can refi it out, go back to conventional for it, and then you can FHA your next house hack.” He was the one that got me to 10 units, that got me to 20 units over time.
Wow. And actually, really sad, he passed early. I’m sorry

Dave:
To hear

Eric:
That. And I was actually, when I found out about it, I was overseas. It was too late, couldn’t attend the funeral. I sent a message to the Bank of Utah just with my condolences, but he changed my life. And honestly, if his family or kids are listening, I want them to know he changed my life and I know he changed the life of others and I now try to change the life of others. So yeah, it’s something special. And it’s interesting. I had Connor, our head engineer, pull the file and his name is in our system from 2012.

Dave:
That’s so cool.

Eric:
Yeah.

Dave:
2012 is OG BiggerPockets. Way before even my time.

Eric:
Yeah.

Dave:
That’s pretty cool.

Eric:
OG level.

Dave:
But it kind of shows just the power of mentorship and networking in this community. At least in my experience, just having people show you the ropes and teach you is far more important in determining how successful you wind up becoming.

Eric:
I look back, I was so stubborn. I actually think if a mentor was there, I don’t know day one if I would’ve taken it. And even though I asked for it, I don’t even know if I really wanted it. I was so stubborn. I wanted to prove something myself. I wanted to prove my own identity away from my W2 identity. But what I would say to anyone is just get a mentor, beg, plead, whatever, to work for free, get a mentor. Everything’s about compounding, so just start earlier with someone who knows what they’re doing.

Dave:
Well, it sounds like you got great advice and off to a really strong start. I want to hear how you scaled up to an even bigger portfolio, but we got to take a quick break. We’ll be right back. Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Podcast. I’m here with BiggerPockets CEO, Eric Augustin. We’ve heard about how he got started house hacking with the help of a mentor in Salt Lake. Eric, how do you take your portfolio from there? You want to get 10 units, you got there. So what was the next step for you?

Eric:
Yeah, so I took a look. Obviously investing in Salt Lake City was due to me moving out there for my job. And then I said, “It’s so interesting. People from New York in the coastal cities, they do not know how amazing Salt Lake City is.” And I said, “One of the places do maybe the coastal cities frown upon a bit or maybe these cities have a branding issue that I could lean into. And the fact I knew how to now leverage third party management, could I just take my buy box and go into these cities?” And Tampa was actually the second one I went into.

Dave:
What year?

Eric:
So I did that 2012. All

Dave:
Right. So you crushed it.

Eric:
So I did pretty

Dave:
Well. Tampa’s been a very good market over the last 15 years. The

Eric:
First place I bought, I bought a triplex in Dunedin and that absolutely blew up. And then I was in Clearwater, New Port Richey, kind of all around there and a little bit in St. Pete, but St. Pete was pretty rough back then.

Dave:
So tell me a little bit about that decision because if what you were doing is working in Salt Lake, why go somewhere else?

Eric:
So I wanted to prove scale. I wanted to prove that I didn’t need to be there because when I started leveraging third party and I started leveraging some people to help with some of the renovations I was doing, I said, “Man, could I replicate this anywhere?” And Tampa’s one of them. Now, interestingly enough, I was at a auction down in Tampa and I was next to a guy that was from New Jersey. And he’s like, “Where are you from?” I said, “Actually, I’m from the East Coast, but I live in Salt La City now.” He said, great. Do you love it? I said the mountains are stunning. I absolutely love it. He goes, “Do you like Tampa?” I said, “Yeah, I like being by the water. Weather’s good down here. Pretty nice.” He goes, “You want to know a secret? Buy rentals in places you want to travel to because if you enjoy visiting your rentals, you enjoy going out with your property manager, going out with your contractor.
If you enjoy it, then work almost becomes your vacation life.

Dave:
Totally.

Eric:
And it’s still work.

Dave:
That’s such a good point.

Eric:
It’s still work. So he says I have places in California, I have places in Colorado, in Tampa and still New Jersey.” And he’s like, “I don’t ever feel like I’m working. I feel like I’m just living my life.”

Dave:
I really do believe that making real estate enjoyable is kind of one of the keys to it because it’s a grind. You’re doing this for 10 years, 20 years to reach financial freedom, totally worth it, better than a corporate career in my opinion, but you got to find these ways to make it enjoyable that it’s something you don’t dread and that it’s something you look forward to. And I think the vibe check, that’s incredible advice, especially when you’re investing out of state.

Eric:
And here’s the thing too. I know you’re a very analytical guy and appreciate that. With that said, go to a local bar where you’re thinking about investing in and just ask the staff, where do you live? What have you heard? What are people doing? You start asking the staff, people around you will go, oh, you know what I heard? I heard this, or I’m looking over here. And I tell you that will point you in the right direction.

Dave:
They’re not like, get the hell out of here, New Yorker. We don’t want

Eric:
Salt Lake. Yes, that’s right.

Dave:
No, it’s so true. There are plenty of places I’ve gone, make sense on paper, look great on paper, and I get there and I’m like, eh, I don’t like it. I don’t get it. It’s not for me. I’m sure other people can make it work, but for me, I don’t understand this place. Other places I’m like, oh, I get this place. I can see where people want to live. I can understand the vibe and the kind of renters that are going to be in this market. Those are the places I pick and it’s just what works for you. So you picked Tampa, you have Salt Lake. Were just those the two places or did you look elsewhere also?

Eric:
So I looked elsewhere. Actually, a lot of people don’t know. I invest in Austin was another place. I was only there for a little bit. I invested in Tulsa.

Dave:
Oh, another good one.

Eric:
I was there for a little bit. But mainly my strongholds are Salt Lake City, Colorado Springs, Cleveland, Tampa, Champaign, Illinois, and Huntsville, Alabama.

Dave:
That’s a lot.

Eric:
It’s a pretty good amount. I have great people, great teams that are in each of those locations. And going back to it, it’s funny, the vibe check you talked about, right? So I go into a bar in Cleveland and sometimes Cleveland gets, I think, a bad rap. So I go into a bar in Cleveland. Everyone is happy. Everyone’s happy there. I

Dave:
Think it’s so important. Quality of life.

Eric:
Quality of life. Everyone’s happy. And I don’t know if it’s because the cost of living is less there, whatever it might be. And they almost have this look in their eye of saying the people of Cleveland and they say, “Hey, we know a little secret that you don’t know, and we’re pretty happy here.”

Dave:
Tell me a little bit about managing these managers, because it’s a lot. And I think it’s probably the biggest hurdle people see to out-of-state investing. How did you find them? Because it sounds like you got, I don’t know if it was lucky, but you found a great one in Salt Lake City. Was it easy to find teams everywhere else?

Eric:
You kiss a lot of toads. I know that’s a terrible saying, but either way, you absolutely do. And you go through a lot. And my managers are very, very local because at the time, the national players weren’t the best. And I actually think the institutionalization, a little bit of SFR contributed to the national players becoming a lot better. That’s probably

Dave:
True.

Eric:
I would look at national players now. However, I am somewhat loyal to, for instance, my property manager from Tampa is here at BPCon.

Dave:
Oh, that’s awesome.

Eric:
We’ve been together obviously for about 15 years.

Dave:
Happy anniversary.

Eric:
Yeah. Pretty loyal. Pretty loyal to me. But the way I look at it is I don’t view my PMs as I manage them or they’re just a manager of my property. I view them as my friends and I view them as people that have helped me achieve to where I’ve gotten today. For instance, I give out Christmas cards and Christmas bonuses.

Dave:
You should. That’s awesome.

Eric:
And no one thinks about that with their property manager. They’re like, “I only call you when I got a problem or there’s an issue or you call me when there’s a problem.” Yep. Nope. The relationship can be so much different. You can dictate what you want.

Dave:
How do you set that tone? Because I think property managers get calls from all sorts of investors. When I talk to my PMs about this, they’re like, “You’re pretty different from other owners.” How do you establish that rapport? Because I think everyone hears that, “I want that,” but it can be hard to establish that.

Eric:
Good property managers don’t need you.

Dave:
That’s a good point.

Eric:
Yeah, that’s right. They don’t really need new clients, right? Or

Dave:
Good agents too. It’s like the same thing. Yeah,

Eric:
Good agents. They have their reoccurring clients they work with, but what I try to do is I come in, I meet with them face to face. I say, “I understand I’m not from here. I am out of state.” I show the appreciation to that city that I honestly feel and the reason why I invest in that city. And then I tell them, “Look, I would love you to get me one and my goal is to work to 10, and I would love to do that in one to two years. We may get there, we may not, but that’s my goal because I want to show a pledge to them that I want to keep giving them business because they have to put food on the table just like everybody else does. And then I say, Hey, if it works out and we get to 10, I’d love to get to 50 doors.
The market could shift, things could happen. We might not get there, but I’d like to do it. The other thing is, I learned this the hard way, but I don’t nitpick every little thing. If we want to start at 10%, let’s start at 10%. I’m not going to nickel and dime down to nine. And then this person’s thinking, ah, the relationship has already started off so transactional.

Dave:
Yeah, it makes total sense. So what does the portfolio look like today?

Eric:
So as far as direct ownership in real estate, I have roughly around 180 doors spread out about the states we talked about. SFR, so one to four, a few small multi, 10 unit up in Green Mountain Falls, that’s kind of on the larger side of it. So I have the direct ownership in real estate, and then I have the LP side of investing, so passive pockets. So I definitely put a lot of LP checks out there, private equity real estate, and also within venture. I’d say those are in a little bit of hot water right now, especially the 21, 22 vintages. I also got into some small business, so home services, so property management. What I did find out is I’m not even good at owning a property management company, just not my thing.

Dave:
This isn’t for you.

Eric:
Yep. We’ll just leave that one on the side. And then I’m in some in-home healthcare, some mobile dog grooming, and some franchises.

Dave:
Amazing. Incredible portfolio in 16 years. And you said you started out 16 years ago looking for an alternative path to financial freedom to compliment your career as W-2 employee. Do you think it’s worked?

Eric:
So I think I stayed after my first investment. I mean, I stayed in corporate America for another probably 10, 12 years. And what I found was the more I built my identity and my self-confidence through investing, the better I was as a W-2 employee. And I actually saw my career take off a little bit more. And I’ll tell you why, and this is why I think at least. So I was having a conversation with an MD, his name was Frank at Goldman, and he’s like, “Geez, Eric, I can’t believe you said that in that meeting.” He’s like, “That took some confidence there.” H didn’t say confidence in another one. And he said, “That took a little bit to say that there.” And I said, “Frank, what’s the worst that happens? I get laid off and I just doubled down on real estate where I seem to be doing pretty well on the nights and weekends.” So that’s that.
And what I found was a lot of the people that were the really strong men and women in business at these firms respected the fact I would take a chance, take a risk, say what I thought and be willing to execute on it. And I think that actually drove me further in my W-2. That’s really

Dave:
Interesting.

Eric:
Until I hit a point where I realized I want to just make a shift in life.

Dave:
Yeah. I haven’t really thought about that. I think about the other way around that, for me at least, having a W-2 has allowed me to take risk in real estate because if I take a swing and I miss, I still can pay my bills from my W-2. But it’s so true that you just gain this confidence and sense of self-reliance a little bit with entrepreneurship that you can go and take some swings in your career. And it sounds like you took a couple swings and they all hit.

Eric:
Yeah. In the beginning it was absolutely the way you described. And then when I found a W-2, it might’ve been due to the 08 financial crisis, but there was always this fear that you’re going to be fired or that

Dave:
You – Oh, for sure.

Eric:
And it’s not just that your paycheck’s going to be cut off, but you put so much time into this entity, into this company, into this brand, and it almost kind of becomes you. You’re part of the brand and that’s where a lot of your confidence lies. So you don’t want to be like, “Oh, you don’t want to be fired.” And they’re constantly churning and the markets are constantly changing. So that’s something where it just gave me a confidence to not worry about that.

Dave:
Yeah, your whole identity is not tied up in your W-2 job. You have something else.

Eric:
I got something else. And it’s funny too, because you go to a picnic in a backyard and you’re some type of event and people just want to hear the title, “Oh, you worked for Goldman. Oh, you work for Blackstone Porco. Oh, you did this.” And it’s so easy for them to then put you in a box. And I actually never really wanted to talk about that. I wanted to talk about real estate. I’m so proud of what I built. I’m like, “Hey, but can we talk about this duplex I just bought?” And crazy what happened when we got into under the floorboards. That’s what we found. That’s what I actually wanted to talk about more and was more proud because that was me. That was my identity I built.

Dave:
So Eric, tell us a little bit about how BiggerPockets has played a role in your investing career.

Eric:
So I became a member of BiggerPockets in 2017, and I remember I was talking to another Goldman employee and he’s like, “Hey, have you seen this BiggerPockets?” He’s like, “I think they’re doing what you’re trying to do and growing everything.” I was like, “Well, what is this?” And I’m not a guy of a huge online presence and just my personality. And I look into it, I’m like, “Oh man, this is exactly what I’m trying to do.” And at the time, a lot of my actual time was used up. And I said, “But I’ve got some extra capital now from what I was producing via rent.” And I said, “I would love to sponsor some flippers.” And at the time, a lot of the DSCR lenders, debt service coverage ratio lenders, were only going after institutions.

Dave:
It was pretty small back then.

Eric:
It was pretty small and they were going after two million and above. So these flippers that needed 100 to 200, they didn’t have any avenues. So what I did is I pledged some of my own money. I went out to friends and family. I borrowed some money, and then we lent it out to flippers that were posting on the forum

Dave:
That

Eric:
Wanted to do flips.

Dave:
That’s

Eric:
Awesome. Yeah, we did over a dozen. We did several. And my confidence was I flipped homes. I knew exactly how to look at it. I could underwrite in my head. I was confident if I had to take it over, I could do it. You

Dave:
Could do

Eric:
It. And I could return money back to the people that lent to me. I was pretty confident in that.

Dave:
All right. So that was your first introduction to BiggerPockets. I mean, sounds like helped you accelerate your career and opened up a whole new channel in what you were doing in real estate.

Eric:
100%. Opened up a whole new channel. I was more of a reader than a poster. I don’t really have much of a social media profile. I don’t post much. It’s just kind of not my thing, but I loved digesting everything from there. Absolutely did. And the other part I loved is learning other people were doing what I was doing.

Dave:
Yeah. Isn’t that comforting?

Eric:
As much as I can come here and be like, oh wow, this was successful, this wasn’t, it was not a straight line. There were down, down moments. And to know there are other people going through what you’re going through and that you can talk to, you can reach out to, you can speak to. My contractor, for instance, in Cleveland, his name’s Rich Price, huge BiggerPockets fan. Huge, huge, huge falls pockets, everything. And for us to just be able to talk through an issue when a $3,000 reno turns into a 30, and he knows the pain I feel on that, even when that happens to me today.

Dave:
Well, it’s funny, you were talking about going to barbecue, talking about real estate. It can be kind of hard to find people who do want to talk, but everyone wants to talk about real estate, but not investing. They don’t want to talk about renovations. They don’t want to talk about DSCR loans. And once you find BiggerPockets and you find your people, it’s exciting if you feel part of something, but it really can accelerate your investing career, just getting the wisdom of the crowd that exists in the larger real estate investing community.

Eric:
100%. And I think with BiggerPockets, you go there for two things. First is education. Education is kind of the easy part. Most people can read, so you can read it down and you can see, okay, this is what I have to do. The hard part is confidence. And because you were taking a pretty big risk when you signed that loan doc, assuming you’re taking debt on something. And I equate it to when you first learn how to drive in a car. You can YouTube how to drive anywhere. It’s actually not that hard. However, you always have someone in that passenger seat helping you. Maybe it’s a family member, maybe it’s a friend, someone teaching you along the way, because if you mess up at 60 miles an hour, there’s consequences to that. If you sign a loan doc that’s 4X your salary, there’s consequences to that.
So you need people to guide and shepherd you, and that’s what BiggerPockets does. And that’s why I’m such a big fan of the community and I’ve been a member for 10 years.

Dave:
So you’ve been a member for 10 years, now you’re the CEO. How did you go from being a real estate investor, working at private equity companies to being the BiggerPockets CEO?

Eric:
So if you asked me a year ago, is this on the cards? It wouldn’t be in the first one million of options. Not because I wouldn’t love to do it, but it just wouldn’t be on the options. Not

Dave:
On your radar.

Eric:
Not on the radar. So I got a call from a board member of BiggerPockets and they said, “Hey, are you aware of BiggerPockets?” I said, “Of course. Been a member of the community 10 years. Absolutely love it.” He said, “Yeah, would you mind coming on? We’re in some management change right now. We’d love you to take a look and we’re thinking about how to shape the strategy for the future.” So I came on as an advisor at first and I said, “Look, I think a few things. One, I think BiggerPockets almost lost its way a little bit from this OG feel that it used to have. And it’s tough because the environment’s changed. There are headwinds for everybody in the real estate industry.” So I don’t blame anyone for that. It just kind of felt like that a little bit. Second, I said, “Well, how do we bring this into 2026?
The forums, albeit great, just felt a little out of date to me.” I said, “All right, how are we going to change the product side of this a bit?” So I put together a strategy form and we were taking a look at options of people to be a CEO. And what we were looking for is someone who had experience in the private equity capital market space, because it’s a pretty large company. And then at the same time, reflected the values and what our members have gone through from house hacking and up. So as we were moving through, honestly, I spoke to a few operating partners. I threw my hat in the ring and said, “You know what? I think I’m kind of called upon to do this a little bit.”

Dave:
You’re just writing the job description. You’re like, “Wait, this sounds like me.”

Eric:
I’m like, “I think this is kind of my calling.” And it’s pretty serendipitous. I would not expect to be here today, but I’m honored to be in this seat. I did not build BiggerPockets. Josh Dorkin did two decades ago. I am honored to carry on his legacy of what he built. I’m honored to be here at BP Con with so much energy.

Dave:
It’s awesome.

Eric:
It’s absolutely insane how many lives. And that’s the one thing, probably the best part about my job is people come up to me once they find out in the CEO BiggerPockets and they say, “BiggerPockets changed my life.” Four out of five people say that.

Dave:
Isn’t it amazing how many people have been so positively… Impacted by BiggerPockets.

Eric:
It’s amazing. Actually, why I’m also so grateful is I’ve worked for amazing companies. I’ve had amazing mentors at the companies. I’ve never felt a true passion working for those companies. I just haven’t. And I gave it my all when I was there, but I didn’t wake up every day and say, “You know what? I want to go into banking and just sit at my desk and type away in Excel.” I just didn’t. But every day we get up and we try to help the everyday American become wealthier through real estate.

Dave:
Yeah. It’s different when you work at a mission-driven company. When it’s just everyone’s here, you go to BP Con, you meet people from all walks of life, all different sorts of people who are all coming together, do the same thing, and just help each other too. Really, it makes working here so much fun. Well, it’s been fun having you on board. I get to see a little bit behind the scenes where the company is going and your vision and what the next iteration of BiggerPockets is going to be. What can you share with the audience about what they can expect to see in the coming years?

Eric:
So really three things we’re looking at. One is we want to connect people with people. Two is we want to connect people with assets. And three is we want to connect people with services that help them acquire and manage those assets.

Dave:
Great.

Eric:
And yes, you could say I also sell, but I’d rather people keep hold as long as they

Dave:
Can. Yeah, for sure.

Eric:
I’d rather that.

Dave:
So tell me about each of those three things, people to people, networking, that kind of thing.

Eric:
Absolutely. So I’ll give you a few examples. Our product and engineering team have only been on board for about two and a half months, but if you go on the website, you’re going to see a lot of different things. First, you’re going to see an investor map. You’re going to see where a lot of our members are located, where they invest, and you can directly DM and reach out to them. So yes, we have the forums. We’re not going to get rid of the forums. They’re kind of a staple. Of

Dave:
Course.

Eric:
But we’re shifting more towards a 2026 feel of a visual map of where our members are because real estate is very local. We’re going to start building out a feed so you can see what members are doing, what projects they’re working on.

Dave:
Thank you.

Eric:
Yes. Yes. We’ll be blowing that up. Interesting, we will have AI to help you scrub through the forums if you want to do it quicker. Oh,

Dave:
Cool. That’s good.

Eric:
But the difference is every time the AI returns a search, we’re going to suggest you connect with the people that contributed to that information.

Dave:
That’s awesome.

Eric:
Because it’s about people at the end of the day. And when we look at education and confidence, those people can give you the confidence to transact.

Dave:
Having people in your neighborhood who know good contractors, who know what rent should be, who know good areas to invest in, makes all the difference. It’s so, so important.

Eric:
100%. I had a member DM me from Cleveland and said, “Hey, are you looking at buying? What’s your strategy? What do you buy?” I told that person and he said, “Hey, you should get in contact with this individual. They really sourced great deals for me.” Perfect. And we had a little back and forth. That was it. And I’ll probably take them up on the office.

Dave:
Save you 10 hours more. Yeah.

Eric:
A ton of phone calls. All

Dave:
Right. So that’s an example of the people to people. Second one was people to assets. Tell us about that.

Eric:
What we’re looking to do, the map first identifies where other people are. The next piece of the map is we are going to start working with some businesses and individuals to bring off-market properties onto the platform. So for instance, rental retirement, we’ve had a very long relationship with them, with Zach there. They’re one of the first that we’ll be onboarding on here and onboarding a lot more. So everyone says, you hear this all the time, “I want off-market deals. I want

Dave:
Off-market deals.”

Eric:
And look, sometimes on-market deals are as good as off. Sometimes in certain markets, however, there’s something magical about an off-market deal. And look, you have to be ethical around this. There are some things that could be broken there, but there are very ethical off-market individuals that do that. There are also a lot of institutions right now that are looking to dispose or sell their assets. Obviously now there’s been some administration changes. Yes. Yes. So that’s something where a lot of these institutions would actually like to sell to investors and they want to sell because they’re easier than prepping a home for a homeowner.

Dave:
They’re more predictable.

Eric:
Yep. And they’re more predictable. Usually the loan closes at a higher percentage rate, so people are looking there. So we’re going to give an avenue for people to transact off-market.

Dave:
I like that. That’s very cool. All right. So I mean, that’s probably one of the top three or four questions I get all the time. How to find off-market deal? How do I find off-market deals? And I’ll be honest, I am too lazy to find them myself. I’m not doing direct to seller marketing, but if someone does it for me, I’m happy to pay a commission for a great deal. And it sounds like we’re going to centralize that so you can do all that searching in one place.

Eric:
Yep. We’re going to aggregate. We’re going to aggregate. And look, bear with us. We’re going to have to vet. Everyone knows there’s a few bad actors out there and we’re going to do our best to vet that and screen people to let them in. But it’s pretty new to have an aggregated central area of all off-market properties.

Dave:
Well, I’ll say bear with us, but also be a part of it. Give feedback to us. That’s the main thing. We’re doing this for you. So if you like an operator, you don’t. If you have ideas on how to improve the aggregation or really any part of the website, I can just speak for knowing Eric a little bit. We love that feedback. So participate in the community by giving us feedback and telling us what you want to hear.

Eric:
We appreciate if you give it directly to us. Anybody can DM me. There’s no AI in back of it. It’s me writing. Anybody can DM me and you’ll hear my response. Also, we do have an AI agent that scrubs forums for feedback. Oh, that’s cool. And then every morning our engineering team gets feedback of what people have written, what they want, what they’re looking for, and then we put that in priority.

Dave:
Awesome. That’s great. I mean, this is a community and community, we really want to hear from all of you how we can be helping you on your real estate journey. So we talked about people to people, talked about people to assets, and then you said people to services and tools.

Eric:
We’re going to start doing something and we don’t have the name exactly right yet, but basically we’re going to have an investor stack. And your investor stack is going to be who you use for a loan, who you use for title, who you use for insurance, who you use on the ground. Maybe it’s a property manager, maybe it’s a national property manager. And people are going to build out what their investor stack looks like. So it’s copying tech stack, it’s copying capital stack, those types of things.

Dave:
So it’s like a combination of your team and your technology.

Eric:
Correct.

Dave:
Yeah. And that’s your stack.

Eric:
That’s your stack. And then people can show what they use and people can debate what they use. With our chief growth officer, we’re constant debate, Lawrence and I, if he’s a DIY and I’m a third party. And he would say, “I would never have a third party in my stack. I think I’m going to win this battle.” But he wants him to be the property manager in the DIY, but people can debate it.

Dave:
That’s the fun part of being in a community. And about real estate, there’s no right answer to a lot of these things, but there’s probably a couple of combinations of technologies and tools and teams that work. And by being a part of the community, you can sort of find those well-worn paths that have a higher probability of success.

Eric:
BiggerPockets is a democracy and the best ideas usually float up. They get voted up on our forms and people are able to see and read those. And I don’t really believe we have a competitor as far from a community perspective, but there are a lot of real estate gurus out there. Some are good. Absolutely. But you kind of have to follow what they say.

Dave:
That’s right. Yeah.

Eric:
And it’s their way of the highway. And that works for a lot of people. And I know a lot of them out there and there’s a lot of good actors out there. Obviously there’s some bad, but I like the community feel more. I want to see who I connect with, who I don’t.

Dave:
I agree. For some people, they want to be told what to do, like follow this exact playbook and that can work for people. But I think as you grow as an investor, you naturally want to expand too. And one route doesn’t usually work. Do you know many investors who have been doing this for a long time that have just followed one playbook forever?

Eric:
No, because markets change, the economy changes, you can always count on change. So you can’t do that. And the faster you can pivot and you can move, the better. And what I have found is it’s not like someone has a crystal ball of how to pivot. You know what they do? They call up a lot of smart people and they say, “What do you think I should do?” They gather about five different opinions and if four of them say go in one direction, they go in that direction.

Dave:
And then give that feedback back to the community. Did it work? Did it not? Everyone sort of gets smarter together. That’s so cool about BiggerPockets.

Eric:
100%.

Dave:
All right. So exciting times ahead. I feel it every day being a member of the community, but also an employee of BiggerPockets that we have exciting stuff coming. So thank you for coming on and sharing the vision for BP with the audience.

Eric:
And look, I appreciate this. It’s such an honor to be on this podcast. It really is. And it’s an honor to represent this community and I’m lucky to be in this seat. I hope I continue to earn the respect of everybody in this seat. And I wake up every day and you know this, I wake up every day pretty early.

Dave:
He does.

Eric:
Wanting to do the best for this community and really represent it to its fullest potential.

Dave:
Oh, awesome. We’re lucky to have you. And just having someone with your background ethos who knows what it’s like to be on this path is super important for the future of this company and bright things are ahead. It’s been a great company for a long time. We’ve been around for 22 years now. I think people don’t realize BiggerPocket’s been around for 22 years and the best is still ahead.

Eric:
100%. And it really comes back to, it’s kind of funny when I just joined the company, I was speaking to a few employees and I could tell the ones that owned rentals. And the question I ask is, I say, “Hey, when you’re signing that loan doc and you’re about to close on your first or second rental, what do you feel?” And for people who are not in real estate or maybe haven’t experienced, they’re like, “Oh, you must be happy. It’s coming to an end. It’s concluding.” You are scared. Terrible. Terrified. You are scared out of your mind.

Dave:
I still do. Every time.

Eric:
I had to sign a DSCR loan the other day and I was like, wait, I’m still PGing this? Oh my gosh. It’s scary as can be. And to have a community at your

Dave:
Packet. 100%.

Eric:
And that’s what I want. When we think about the vision of BiggerPockets, I want people to feel via our product, via our podcast, via our in real life presence, that we all have each other’s back.

Dave:
Yeah, absolutely. We’re going to have more with Eric right after this quick break. Stick with us. Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Podcast. We are talking today with the BiggerPockets CEO, Eric Augustin. Let’s get back to our conversation. All right. Well, this has been a lot of fun. Before we get out of here, we have some rapid fire questions for you. We want to know a little bit more about you. First up, popular question. Do you have a favorite real estate or business book?

Eric:
So you’ve probably heard this one before, but Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

Dave:
I think I’ve heard that 1500 times probably. Yeah, I did. Look,

Eric:
That’s an OG book. It absolutely is. It really teaches you what good debt is. So I think that’s important. I’d say millionaire next

Dave:
Door.That’s a great one. All right. Second question. What is one hill you’re willing to die on about real estate? You got any hot takes?

Eric:
Yep. If you buy something on a good cost basis, you’ll be okay. So I think money is made on the buy. And people do disagree with this. I get a lot of people disagreeing with this, but I think for two reasons. One, if the market does dip, you already got it at a discount, so you might just even out. The second piece is you’re going to make mistakes. I still make mistakes and sometimes I make mistakes because I get distracted on something else and that gives me a lot of room to make those.

Dave:
Especially in this kind of market, we’re seeing corrections in a lot of markets more important than it’s been in a long time I think to buy that good price. Yeah, for sure. This is something I struggle with. I got to talk to a lot of cool investors and I’m always getting shiny object syndrome, getting FOMO. People are doing cool stuff that I’m not doing. Do you get that about anything?

Eric:
Yeah. Kind of weird you say shiny object. One thing that I’ve bid on, I’ve tried to own and still I want to achieve is actually a manufactured housing project.

Dave:
Oh, that’s a good one. Or

Eric:
Referred to as a trailer park. I really want to own one. I actually want to spend a few weeks there living in the park. I want to experience that. But it’s challenging. There’s so much hair on those. I’ve seen a few where it looks like the city wants to get involved heavily. So I’ve never pulled the trigger on it, but that’s my –

Dave:
Price has gone up a lot on them

Eric:
Recently. Secret’s out. Secret’s out on that model.

Dave:
Yeah, that’s a good one. So outside of real estate, or maybe not actually, what does an ideal weekend look like to you?

Eric:
So yeah, my weekend probably looks a little bit different to my ideal one. So my ideal weekend is actually traveling to my properties, viewing them, looking at new potential properties, and then going out to dinner with my property managers, my contractors, my insurance broker. That’s what I love.

Dave:
Doing deals.

Eric:
Doing deals.

Dave:
Just wants to do deals.

Eric:
I love looking at them. I love going through certain tenants I do meet, others I don’t meet. Yeah, it’s pretty special. It’s lame, but that’s an ideal weekend for me.

Dave:
It’s true. I love it. You’re just passionate about it. Yeah. All right. What’s your favorite TV show? Do you watch

Eric:
TV? I do sometimes, yeah. Sometimes I relax at night with it. Yeah. So I’m going to throw you off on this one a little bit. If I’m really being honest, Star Trek: Next Generation.

Dave:
Yeah. Is that the OG one?

Eric:
Not the OG. Okay. Captain Kirk’s OG. This one’s with Captain Picard.

Dave:
Just the fact that you know that.

Eric:
Just correct you on that. But it’s funny, I was speaking at someone who works at a large lending shop and I admitted to them that I’m kind of a big Star Trek. And she said, “That’s so weird.” She goes, “My aunt always says that if the world just watched the next generation, it’d be a much happier place and people would realize that the issues we have in life aren’t really that big of a deal and we can resolve them together.” And the weirdest thing is, that’s actually how I feel. Really? I think everyone watched Star Trek: The Next Generation, all the problems we see today are explained throughout those episodes, world would be a better place. I’m

Dave:
The moral guide to society. All right. I’ll have to check this out.

Eric:
We might not be far off. I mean, we are building a starship to go to Mars apparently. Yeah. Yeah. So we might not be far off

Dave:
As well. This will be research for us. Yeah. All right. What’s one luxury item? You have a guilty pleasure you indulge in?

Eric:
I like cars.

Dave:
Oh, okay. I

Eric:
Don’t know if that started as a mechanical engineer watching fast and curious. That came out at just the right time for me. I was getting

Dave:
My – Big Vin Diesel fan.

Eric:
More Pole Walker, but yeah, that’s probably I gravitate to a little bit more. But at that time, I think that was really cult classic, at least I grew up with. And yeah, there’s something about a really nice car that if it’s two-seater, when I’m in there on the highway, cruising, it’s like I’m in my own cabin and can be alone for a second. I love people. I love this community, but there are parts where I want to be alone, listening to what I want to listen to, cell phone down, and just be cruising.

Dave:
That’s great. Awesome. All right. I’m not a car guy, so I won’t even understand what the answers to this question mean, but what’s your favorite car you’ve owned?

Eric:
So this one’s also going to throw you off a little bit. It’s actually a RAV4. Toyota RAV4. And the reason it’s a Toyota RAV4 is –

Dave:
Such an investor answer.

Eric:
Actually, when I moved to Salt Lake, I bought a 2006 Porsche Cayman S and I got along

Dave:
With – I know that is a classic car.

Eric:
Spent a lot of money and I had this kind of NewYork thing where, oh, I’m moving to Salt Lake and buy myself a car. I’m going to this, this, that. I sold that car a year later and took the money and bought that rental out in Magna

Dave:
Because

Eric:
I realized, what did that car mean? What did that mean? And I can get that car, let me make some money in real estate and maybe one day I can even get a nicer car.

Dave:
Well, I assume the RAV4 is not your dream car though. Do you have a grail car that you want to get one day?

Eric:
100%. Aston Martin. Oh,

Dave:
Yeah?

Eric:
So big James Bond fan.

Dave:
Oh God, those are so cool.

Eric:
Yeah. Huge James Bond fan.

Dave:
Like a classic or new?

Eric:
Oh, if I could get a DB5 classic, 100%. And I don’t buy new cars. I would buy three years old, hit the depreciation curve. Yes, it’s amazing and I don’t blame anyone for buying a new car, but no, I let hit the depreciation

Dave:
Curve. All right, great. You told me the other day you’ve been to like 40 something countries?

Eric:
I’ve been to a lot of countries, yeah. But I had a cheat code. I lived in Asia for a while. I lived in Bangalore, India or Bangaluru as it’s pronounced now.

Dave:
What’s your favorite country you’ve been to and why?

Eric:
That’s a tough one. Can I give you a few?

Dave:
Yeah.

Eric:
All right. So in Asia, I think Thailand is really interesting. And people hear that, they think hangover, they roll their eyes, they think of all these different things. But it’s actually one of the freest countries in Asia

Dave:
That I’ve seen.

Eric:
And the expression there is amazing. The food’s amazing. I think if you look at the history of Thailand, there’s something very special, I guess kingdom of Thailand. So there’s something very special there. I think in Europe, I saw the Sograta Familia in Barcelona and said, being an engineer, I said, “This is the most amazing structure I’ve ever seen.”

Dave:
It’s the craziest.

Eric:
If people haven’t seen it, one, Google it. Two, if you can go, go. It’s absolutely amazing.

Dave:
Yeah. I’m not an architecture guy at all, but going there, your jaw drops to the floor. It’s an unbelievable feat of creativity and engineering. It’s taken what, 140 years or something to build. It’s still going.

Eric:
Still going.

Dave:
Yeah. It’s so cool.

Eric:
It’s absolutely unbelievable. It’s tough for me Andrew. I could keep going. I can name some of the Middle East that I enjoyed heavily. I went to Jerusalem. That was an unbelievable experience. Incredible experience. And I hope people will be able to return there safely at some point. But I could keep going. I think everything’s so unique, but there’s… Let me tie this back. I know I tie everything back to real estate. I’m sorry on that, but let me just –

Dave:
That’s why you’re

Eric:
Here. It’s why I’m in the seat. But let me tie it back to real estate. What I will say is I’ve explored buying real estate in different countries, and I will say it is so much more challenging –

Dave:
So

Eric:
Hard. Than the US. And then you look at the numbers, you look at the lending, you look at the insurance, you look at all the risks that are involved. And I’m telling you, the US is the best place to buy real estate. It

Dave:
Really is.

Eric:
I think back to this quote, not to go back to my capital markets days, and I don’t know if Jamie Diamond’s the one that fully coined this, but the United States is the best piece of real estate on the planet. It absolutely is. And you can have planes, mountains, desert, coastal. You can have all that under one country, one citizenship, one passport. We have friendly neighbors to the top. We have friendly neighbors below. We’re surrounded by two large oceans, and we have a plentiful amount of natural resource. We are so lucky. We are so lucky to be here, and I’m happy to own a piece of the United States.

Dave:
Same. I completely agree. Well, Eric, thank you so much for being here. This was a lot of fun learning a little bit about your history and about the vision and future for BiggerPockets. I think I can speak for the whole community and audience in saying that we’re excited about things to come and appreciate everything you’re doing.

Eric:
No, thanks so much. Appreciate your time. I’m so excited for BP Con. I know this will probably air a little bit after that, but the energy in that room is amazing. And like I said before, I’m just honored to be in this seat and I want to wake up every day and do the best I can.

Dave:
And thank you all for watching this episode of the BiggerPockets Podcast. We’ll see you next time.